Intermediate video format for Sony Vegas 12

[Ed Kneler]

Question: are there several versions of this codec with different qualities?. I believe reading in one of our forums, that Vegas Pro included that codec in vs 7 (not from vs 8 on) and it was of medium quality. So are there several quality leves on this codec, and if so, what is the quality of this free codec that comes with Cineform Studio.?

[Kashif Malik]

When you install Cineform Studio it installs the same codec used by all their other products. In the Cineform codec settings under the render settings dialogue for Vegas it shows you a few options.

Encoding Format:
You are limited to using YUV 4:2:2 with the studio version, which is basically what you want to use unless you are shooting on a camera that’s outputting RAW video files, such as the RED or Blacnkmagic camera.

Encoding Quality:
Low, Medium, High do exactly what they sound like, with varying levels of compression.

Filmscan1, Filmscan2, Keying are reference formats and what you should use if using this as an intermediate codec. They limit all compression to be virtually lossless.

The creator of Cineform said that Filmscan1 should be what you use for most projects if using this as an intermediate format.

[Ed Kneler]

Kashif: I followed your advice to download the free Cineform Studio and install it. But if it comes with the Cineform codec, as you stated, it is not available to Vegas Pro 12. I even restarted my computer but Vegas gives me an error “codec not found” when I try to render in avi/cineform. However, when I install the trial version of Neoscene, the codec is available and allows Vegas to render. Any comments?

[Kashif Malik]

I’ve used the codec with Vegas Pro 10. However, I just tried it with Vegas Pro 12 and it seems you are right.

A quick Google search revealed that other people have the same issue. Apparently Vegas Pro 12 doesn’t yet work well with this method, much like how Vegas 10 initially didn’t. It wasn’t till Vegas Pro 10 version e came out that the Cineform codec worked properly using the described method. Hopefully they will release a similar update to Vegas Pro 12.

Alternatively, many people have had success fixing the problem by copying a specific file from Vegas Pro 10e or Sound Forge to Vegas Pro 12, as described a little more than halfway through the page here:

https://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/Forums/ShowMessage.asp?Forum=4&MessageID=844879

Perhaps it’s worth a try.

[Dave Haynie]

[Kashif Malik] “‘ve used the codec with Vegas Pro 10. However, I just tried it with Vegas Pro 12 and it seems you are right.”

I’m actually not surprised.

I used Cineform for years without problems, basically since it first came bundled with Vegas, in the days when maybe editing HDV was too CPU intensive for many PCs.

But when Vegas 11 came out, Sony and the Cineform people (I think a bit before GoPro bought Cineform) had put some kind of custom interface between Vegas and the Cineform CODEC. Not just the usual VfW API which, far as I know, I had always been happy with.

That was the beginning of the end. The older version of Cineform I had, which still worked just dandy with Vegas 10, crashed like crazy on Vegas 11… clearly, they expected this new API to be there, but never bothered checking. Or something like that. It was an instant crash on render, not random, not even a warning saying “please upgrade Cineform”.

So I did upgrade Cineform. And at that point, I could read all my Cineform files. Still crashed like crazy on write. On the final release of Vegas 11 or therabouts, it didn’t crash on write anymore. But it had gone all wonky, anyway… sometimes the video would render or read all screwed up, etc.

And then there was the licensing. They totally boggered my licence… apparently, assigning the same license code to multiple users. And once discovered, they didn’t really issue me a new code or anything responsible, they just remoted into my PC and got it installed, using a tech support code or some-such. It eventually decided it was no longer registered, and so I’ve been Cineform free for awhile… though I had pretty much stopped using it anyway, just given how broken it was in Vegas 11.

Not necessarily all Cineform’s fault, either… Sony should have put in a simple option, like “Use VfW for Cineform” or one of the usual things you put in, just in case your new optional feature causes someone problems. Thing is, given the choice of DNxHD or Sony MXF/MPEG-2, there’s not a huge need for Cineform anyway, these days.

-Dave

[Tim Neighbors]

Hi John. I’m also looking for a good 1920 intermediary codec to render out of vegas and bring back in. MXF 422 sounds great except it doesn’t allow the embedding of meta data to ‘save project as path reference in rendered media file’ (checkbox at bottom of render screen).
I’ve tried a few different ones. Sony AVCHD works but probably will give me a lot of generation loss in future renders (?).
AVI YUV works and is probably best, but that’s a little too much goodness for my poor hard drive.
Sony AVC allows me to check the box, but doesn’t give me the option to link back from the rendered file when dropped on a new timeline.

Any recommendations?
thanks!
tim
neighborsvideo.com

[John Rofrano]

Have you tried CineForm? I believe it’s now free as part of GoPro Studio. It uses the AVI container and is visually lossless while maintain a reasonable file size on the Medium setting.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com

[Roger Kroksleiven]

[John Rofrano] “Here are your options in order of decendng quality:
1. The “best” would be uncompressed but that is overkill.
2. Lagarith is a better “lossless” format because it produces smaller files.“

I have been using the Lagarith lossless codec as an intermediate codec, and I like it. Recently, I have been testing the Techsmith Screen Capture Codec (tscc). The codec is free to download and install to let you play video clips encoded with the codec, but you will have to buy the Techsmith Movie Studio to be able to render with the codec in Vegas. As far as I know this codec is lossless, and it produces clips with significantly smaller bitrate and file size than Lagarith. However, it does seem like Vegas produces larger files with this codec than for instance VirtualDub. I do believe the tscc codec is intended for desktop recording, but I have not yet encountered any problems with it. I seems to me like it is using a variable bitrate.
Has anyone here any experience with the Techsmith Screen Capture Codec?
Is it truly lossless?
Would it be a good intermediate codec?