HVR-Z1U HD vs. HVX200

[Graeme Nattress]

Solid state memory is not as expensive as P2. P2 is expensive though, especially at the higher sizes. This will drop though….

Graeme

– http://www.nattress.com – Film Effects and Standards Conversion for FCP

[Kevin Wild]

The SONY deck will play Canon’s 1080i just fine, which is what MUCH of the work I do will be shot at. So, there are “supporting decks” for this camera. Yes, the 24 and 30F modes are currently not supported, but it won’t be long, so let’s not go overboard on the idea this camera has “limited use in the post world.”

Not sure I agree that the HVX200 offers “more controls.” Have you checked out an H1 yet? You can change just about everything you’d ever want to do…VERY, VERY flexible.

Again, I don’t want to get into which is better. The quality is within a percent or two with a good shooter, in my opinion. If someone wants to go tapeless, get the HVX200. If someone needs tape, go H1.

KW

[David S.]

The 720p footage with action/motion on the HVX200 is fabulous.

Well shot and planned footage on the Z1U is also fabulous.

As Barry says, the issue for most people is acquisition media for the Pany.

I record on $16.00 tapes with the Sony. Not standard DV, but mastering tape the minimizes drop outs for HDV.

The Panasonic requires either 4 or 8 Gb P2 cards that are very expensive. Shooting DVCProHD on these tapes runs about 4 minutes per 4 Gbs. Or you can record directly to an external hard drive equipped to this – three possibilites are all about $2,000.00.

Or you can record live directly to FCP using laptop.

David S.

[Graeme Nattress]

It won’t belong before 30f and 24f are supported eh? So Canon are making a deck are they? Or Sony will support it like they don’t support JVC’s? The lack of standardization and deck support for HDV is a nightmare. If you’re a post house wanting to support all HDV formats, you need an awful lot of gear….

Graeme

– http://www.nattress.com – Film Effects and Standards Conversion for FCP

[Kevin Wild]

Graeme, not that companies haven’t done dumber things in the past, but I CAN NOT IMAGINE that Canon made this new format without any plans for deck support. I would hope that there will be a rev’d deck from SONY that supports these modes at NAB this year.

Not sure, but I sure hope something is released soon. The camera is incredible…I feel the same awe at the pictures I’m getting as when I first walked into an edit suite 15 years ago.

Kevin

[Gary Adcock]

[Kevin Wild] “The SONY deck will play Canon’s 1080i just fine, which is what MUCH of the work I do will be shot at. So, there are “supporting decks” for this camera. Yes, the 24 and 30F modes are currently not supported, but it won’t be long, so let’s not go overboard on the idea this camera has “limited use in the post world.””

This has not been my experience, I have been unable to get the 2 different Canon H1 Tapes I shot at 1080i60 to play in any deck. I have tried these tapes in 3 Sony decks without success – but they play fine in the 2 cameras I tried.

Gary Adcock
Studio37
HD and Film Consultation
Chicago, IL USA

[Accountclosedduetopolicyviolations]

Hi Gary,
will You post some test results regarding HVX 200??
jiri

[Gary Adcock]

[jiri vrozina] “will You post some test results regarding HVX 200??”

I will be posting some of my tests and results when the Cow magazine article hits the news stands later this spring.
Some of the news will be old by then. some will not be.

Gary Adcock
Studio37
HD and Film Consultation
Chicago, IL USA

[Graeme Nattress]

Well, given that Canon sales rep that I spoke to seemed woefully ignorant of these incompatibilities, and that no deck has been announced from Canon, and I’ve not seen Sony announce a new deck either, and given that Canon have NEVER made a video deck (only cameras), I severely doubt there’s any solution on the horizon. I’d not be holding my breath…..

Graeme

– http://www.nattress.com – Film Effects and Standards Conversion for FCP

[Toke]

I don’t see vcr’s so important anymore. Sony’s hdv deck is just a camera without camera head and it costs about the same amount than the camera, so it’s better idea to buy 2 cameras than one and vcr.

One difference between hdv and dvcprohd will remain and no talent can remove that: datarate.
1080i60hdv has only 0.54 bits per pixel when dvcprohd has 2.4 bits per pixel. Even if hdv’s interframe compression is a bit more efficient, it also produces “movement error” artifacts when motion estimation in a GOP fails.

This leads to that some new technology narrows down the artistic choises we are used to have.
It makes me a bit angry and sad, but it seems to be that camera design engineers have never understood what creative professionals really want out of their camera. In the past when design aimed to best possible “technical quality” it rarely restricted the creative use. Nowadays when camera design aims to lowest cost and highest profits, “technical quality” is designed to be just above “acceptable level”. This is good enough in optimal sircumstances, but not in any other.

In technical history point of view, hdv is a sad example of a format that is cheapest solution for consumers but adopted also by professionals. It uses tape technology used by consumer cameras for whole decade. It uses compression method that was designed over a decade ago. It uses interlaced picture which is just compression method for analog television.

For example using handheld camera with high shutter speed with lots of movement in the picture and rapid changes in the lights (= regular music video) is too much for hdv datarate. I’ve seen examples of this.
But of course, most of the time hdv can give “acceptable quality”. It really depends what you are shooting and how.

But hey, happy new year to everybody in creativecows!
May your new year be unique!