HPX-500 or EX3

[Joe Henderson]

The Ex3 is not 4:2:0 sorry to disappoint all of you. Be careful what you read. Look at the whitepapers from Sony of the Ex3. This is not by not means a broadcast camera. Most HD 2/3inch Cameras not not even a true 4:2:2 in the broadcast market. 1/2 inch no way.

[Jeff Regan]

This from Wikipedia re: XDCAM EX:

“It uses an 4:2:0 MPEG-2 Long-GOP codec when recording to SxS solid-state memory cards, but is 4:2:2 internally and a full 4:2:2 signal is present on the HD-SDI out connection.” Unquote.

Every broadcast and cable network has its own set of technical requirements and most of them break their own rules. Bit rate alone is not a measure of quality. DVCPRO HD and AVC-Intra 100 in 720/24P Native modes run at only 40Mbps.

I own an HPX2700 and was an HDX900 owner. I certainly believe these cameras are superior to the EX1 or EX3, but the latter two cameras are full raster 1080, and when used in progressive modes, yield very good images. The NBC network show “Trauma” uses F35’s and EX3’s, Michael Mann’s “Public Enemy” used EX3’s for some parts of the movie.

How a 1/3″ camera like the HVX200 is considered HD, but not an EX1 or EX3 is nonsensical. The original XDCAM HD 1/2″ cameras have been used by local market stations for broadcast for years.

I think most anybody would agree that an EX 1 or EX3 output via HD SDI to a separate nanoFlash or KiPro deck would certainly qualify as HD. I prefer 2/3″ CCD cameras, but Sony wouldn’t have put the “Cine Alta” badge on the EX1 and EX3 if they didn’t consider the image quality to be HD.

Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video
http://www.ssv.com

[Dan Brockett]

Jeff, are we existing in some kind of alternate reality?

So the EX3 doesn’t use 4:2:0 color space in recording to SxS or SD cards? If it doesn’t use 4:2:0 color space, what color space do you think it uses Joe? Please provide links to the Sony literature or white papers that substantiate this assertion. Here is the link to the Sony USA specs that clearly show that the camera does record a 4:2:0 color space signal https://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/product-PMWEX3/ Right there in the specs page, black and white, clear as day.

And the EX3 isn’t HD? Wow, someone should tell Sony and SMPTE about this terrible oversight as well as the Federal Trade Commission because they are obviously breaking the law by falsely advertising the EX3 as an HD camera. https://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/product-PMWEX3/

I already provided the link above that outlines specs for SMPTE 709, which clearly state that not only is the EX3 a true HD camera, so is my wife’s $150.00 Flip Video Mino HD. If you can provide substantiation to the contrary, I would love to see it. Unless this is just trolling?

Best,

Dan

Providing value added material to all of your favorite DVDs

[Joe Henderson]

“Cine Alta” badge on the EX1 and EX3 if they didn’t consider the image quality to be HD.(Sure they would if it sells cameras) Again not HD- HQ

And the EX3 isn’t HD?( no it is not) Wow, someone should tell Sony and SMPTE about this terrible oversight as well as the Federal Trade Commission because they are obviously breaking the law by falsely advertising the EX3 as an HD camera. https://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/product-PMWEX3/

We agree to disagree. Leave it at that.
Back to work.

( FROM ANOTHER ENG’> on Mar 6, 2010 at 1:23:22 pm

but EX3 not TRUE HD camera
its only High Resolution Camera

35MBs is not be enought to standard HD,
its only 4:2:0 (pal) color sampling – not be enought to broadcast demand

[Joe Henderson]

On Sonys White papers there in no mention of HD. If it was a True HD Signal they would have added HD (NOT HQ)

I am not trying to get in any arguments.

HQ mode: VBR, maximum bit rate: 35 Mb/s, MPEG-2 MP@HL
SP mode: CBR, 25 Mb/s, MPEG-2 MP@H14

HQ mode:
1920 x 1080/59.94i/29.97P/23.98P
1280 x 720/59.94P/29.97P/23.98P
SP mode:
1440 x 1080/59.94i
Recording Frame Rate PAL model HQ mode:
1920 x 1080/50i, 25P
1280 x 720/50P, 25P
SP mode:
1440 x 1080/50i

HQ mode:
1920 x 1080/50i, 25P
1280 x 720/50P, 25P
SP mode:
1440 x 1080/50i

HQ Mode
Approx. 100 min. with SBP-32 (32 GB) memory card**
Approx. 50 min. with SBP-16 (16 GB) memory card
Approx. 25 min. with SBP-8 (8 GB) memory card

[Jeff Regan]

Joe,

You are confusing a codec recording mode with HD. ANY 720X1280 or 1080X1920 sensor camera IS an HD camera, even if not a native HD sensor.

HQ mode just denotes a full sample horizontal recording option.
SP mode just denotes a sub-sample horizontal recording option.

Both are HD codecs, just as the EXMOR CMOS full raster 1080X1920 sensors are HD in the EX1 and EX3. A codec need not have the letters “HD” in the name to be considered an HD codec.

If you knew anything about the Cine Alta name, you’d know that it denotes two things, HD and 24 FPS(24 Psf to be exact).

Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video
http://www.ssv.com

[Mario Biennarc sioco]

Thanks guys for that argument.As an owner of both EX1 and EX3, they’re true HD cameras. In fact the EX3 can output 10bit 4:2:2 HD through the SDI output therefore giving out much superior quality to the HVX500. Sony EX cameras are 4:2:0 when it records through its internal SXS. However when used with an external recorder through the SDI-out, as I said, it can generate a 10bit 4:2:2 HD image.
We use the Nanoflash which can record at a maximum of 8bit 4:2:2 280mbps HD recording. Sony also has the NIPROS/1 (https://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-broadcastcameras/cat-xdcam/product-NIPROS%2F1/) which is designed to be for broadcast use. So I therefore conclude that the EX3 is a true HD camera.

Mario Biennarc Sioco
Videographer & Video Editor
Gulf Broadcast
Kingdom of Bahrain

[Dan Brockett]

Thanks for verifying that Mario. You, I and Jeff agree that the EX1 and EX3 are true HD cameras but more importantly, as I have been pointing out throughout this thread, both Sony and SMPTE agree that the EX1/EX3 are HD. SMPTE is the engineering organization that defines what HD is and under their definition of HD, the EX1/EX3, as well as EVERY other camera that shoots 720p/1080i/p is HD. End of story.

Why Joe and Michael think that they know better than Sony and SMPTE this is mystery to me. I mean, if Joe and Michael want to, they can pronounce the Sony EX3 is a Pimento Loaf. And that’s fine. But the rest of the world will still pronounce it an HD camera. Alternate realities I guess?

Dan

Providing value added material to all of your favorite DVDs

[Barry Lynks]

What they may be referring to is pixel duplication. Where the pixels use the information from the pixel next to it. So the pixel is taking a copy of the information not generating the information. So cameras that claim to have 4:2:2 may in fact have them, but they do not generate their own information.(Sony has a better way to describe the design of the HVX-200) They copy it- very common in smaller cameras. Best way go to NAB ask Panasonic about Sonys Ex-3.
FYI anyone can add information to Wikipedia nothing is EVER verified. Best way test yourself and trust no one.
Sony’s camera are what they are, No I do not work for Panasonic either.
I also don’t like any camera under $ 15,000 at this point. I do like the SRW-9000. That is a HD camera.
I think they are looking at this from a different technical point of view. I have also been told that a F-900 is really at 3:1:1 when recording to the tape( I have never been able to prove this ,but I have heard. Anyways this has been put to bed.
This went off topic.

[Jeff Regan]

Sony EX1, EX3 do not use pixel shifting. Panasonic HPX200, 200A, HPX170, 500 do, as does JVC 700, I believe. EX1 and 3 are true full raster cameras.

HDCAM is 3:1:1 color space, that’s correct. Sony SRW-9000 HDCAM SR camcorder is tape based and 2/3″, so not worth the price to me vs. Panasonic HPX3700.

Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video
http://www.ssv.com