hpx 300 help!

[Jeff Regan]

John,

It sounds like you’ve already made up your mind to return the camera and go with the JVC instead–certainly your call. Just odd that you asked for help, but I see no attempt on you part to try any of the settings I’ve recommended. You keep referring to “out of the box”, but what does that really mean with a digital camera? Once you load a preset scene file into the camera, it should have a different look than “out of the box”.

Recommend you try a factory reset. Your terms like “pop”, “crispness”, “murky”, “cruddy”, aren’t easy to translate into technical camera setup changes. Noisy I get, crispness I assume is the detail circuit needing to be raised.

Again, your camera could be defective, it would be worthwhile to put next to another HPX300. Might also be interesting to put side by side with a JVC as well.

Panasonic has some great people that could try to help, but only if you really want to find out what’s going on. You could contact Jan Crittendon, the product manager or Barry Russo, an engineer.

I’m just thinking that IF the camera were defective or could be made to look like what your taste desires, you would have the advantage of the AVC-Intra 100 codec. Even DVCPRO HD is superior to the codecs available with the JVC. The CCD’s with the 700 use pixel offset to get HD pixel count, the 300 uses three native full raster sensors. The five year warranty is nice as well.

The JVC may be the right camera for you and your clients, but it would be interesting to get to the bottom of what is going on with the HPX300–defective or just not your preference in image quality.

Best of luck!

Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video
http://www.ssv.com

[John d Foundas]

I did make some adjustments and I stayed away from 1080 60i.
Shot some test footage @ 720/24p 60f It looks ok, but again it doesnt jump at me the way an HD image should. Have a look.
https://www.vimeo.com/wvm
There is some JVC test footage as well. I think you’ll be surprised at how nice the HM700 looks in the lighting test.
Thank you for trying to help as I am beyond frustrated.
I have lost confidence in this camera right from the start. That is a shame because I love other Pan products. I shoot with a 2000a @ FOX in DC (in SD…lol) That being said, I cannot put my livelyhood on the line with gear I dont trust.

The JVC image screams over the hpx300.
John

[Jeff Regan]

John,

I only found one HPX300 clip, which looked similar to the JVC exterior clip. The main difference that I saw was chromatic aberration error with the JVC, due to no having CAC, which the Panasonic has.

The lit interior looked very nice, assume that was the JVC. The low light test was horrid, typical 1/3″ video noise from the JVC, and I’m pretty sure the Panasonic would look bad as well in the same conditions.

I don’t like to make judgments from highly compressed files on the web, but the 300 looked fine on the exterior footage that I saw.

I assume you meant HVX200A that you shoot with for FOX, being that the HPX2000 doesn’t shoot SD.

Anyway, having run a rental house for 27 years, JVC is not a brand I would have on my shelf based upon previous experience up to the HD100. I have not, however, seen the 700, but I am very familiar with the XDCAM EX codec. The best part about Sony XDCAM EX cameras are the 1/2″ full raster sensors, which the JVC does not have.

I do like the fact that the 700 offers Quicktime files natively, that is a nice convenience, if far short of AVC-Intra 100 quality.

Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video
http://www.ssv.com

[Phil Yunker]

John,
Have you tried a place like Macie Video in MA? ( I do not work for Macie or have any connection with them) They “set up” cameras there and can create the proper scene files that you desire. Like Dan Brocket said “JVC really?!” nothing but bad news there (Junk Video Company) As for “out of the box” look, I don’t think the new HD cameras have a out of a box look, I know that the VariCams that I have used look absolutely horrible without a scene file or being set up properly, I know the sony ex3’s are sent from the factory as looking “flat” so the user can set up the camera for their needs, even the Panasonic 200A’s need set up / scene files for them to look good if not they are dark, have a lot of noise and muddy, sound familiar. Take Jeff Regan’s advice and try to contact the folks at Panasonic to see what they can help you with.

[Jeff Regan]

Phil,

Agreed, Roger Macie is a good resource for camera setup. Many network shooters have used him for years. I’ve sent my cameras to him in the past–he maintained my 2)Sony D600 Betacams.

I have a Sony EX1 in my rental inventory and hated the way it looked in its standard factory default picture profiles. Once I put in some scene files, it transformed the camera.

My HDX900 and HPX2700 came from the factory setup to look good with Asian skin tones, but are deficient in green and cyan saturation. Wonderful when I’m shooting Asians, not so good for other setups. I wish every manufacturer would setup their cameras with a Chroma Du Monde chart as a factory reference.

I remember way back, many people waxed poetically about Ikegami cameras vs. Sony cameras, colorimetry wise. It wasn’t a big deal to match the Sony to the Ikegami by using the matrix, working on the detail circuit. The funniest thing was that when matrix was turned off on both brands, they were actually very close, although the Ikegami cameras used a different IR filter cut which affected red response.

Anyway, anytime I hear somebody doesn’t like the “look” of a digital camera, I just chuckle because I know I can make most any camera look like any other–that’s the point of a digital camera vs. an analog camera.

Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video
http://www.ssv.com

[John d Foundas]

It’s the AJ HPC2000a
The golf course clip was shot with that camera in HD. No color or grading BTW…just some spectacular light!
Agreed on the horrid lighting. The Panasonic was far worse in that light than the JVC…which is odd considering the 700 is CCD. Which makes me believe there is someing wrong with the block etc..
Most of my client work is going to be for the web, so I think the JVC will serve me fine for now. I wish the new Sony EX350 2/3 cmos was a little cheaper. I considered the EX3 but could not get past the form factor and after market shoulder systems.

Thanks for all your input,
Happy Holidays
John

[John d Foundas]

Thanks Phil,
There is a shop in MD that is famous for handling Panasonic products very well (setup etc..)
My problem at this point is that I am up against the return window with BH in NYC. If I hold onto the cam to get it looked at further and it is defective…I’m out of luck on the return. I do realize its under warranty, but thats not the point. I need confidence in the equipment. I’ll keep you posted.

[Phil Yunker]

John
I totally understand the return dilemma / situation you are up against.
Since most of your client work will be web based, have you looked at the Panasonic HPX-170?
However, I understand that you are a news shooter and that you would probably hate shooting with a “little” camera, I don’t blame you I don’t like them either.
What about a exchange with B&H for another HPX-300? if it’s still dark, muddy, with a lot of noise then you know it’s the camera and how it looks.
I had to suffer through 6 half-hour episodes of editing footage from JVC cameras, yes they were older ones, not the 700, but the footage was horrible, the crew constantly had problems with them, it was a bad deal.
Please let us know what happens.

[Jeff Regan]

Yes, I’m surprised at how quiet the EX1/3 are. Part of it is the 1/2″ vs. 1/3″ sensor size, but Sony seems to have a very clean camera that is pretty close in sensitivity to Panasonic 2/3″ cameras in 720P. It slower in 1080.

I think the Sony 350 is priced a bit high, although the stock lens is very cheap. I just can’t help thinking that the HPX2700 can be had for the same price–except for viewfinder and lens and P2 cards, which add up quickly.

I really hope you get a chance to see a 700 and 300 side by side somehow. The exterior footage you posted on Vimeo looks more similar than different to me. I’m a big fan of AVC-Intra, and having to step down to 8-bit, 4:2:0, Long GOP at a low bit rate would be depressing to me.

I have an HPX170 and it’s slower than an EX1, while still being noisier. With my 2/3″ Panasonic cameras, I always shoot at -3db if possible to keep noise low.

Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video
http://www.ssv.com

[Dale West]

Just wanted to toss out a couple of things then go back to cleaning the office……
Box houses. I’ve talked about them in the past. I buy some stuff from them but I would have to think twice about buying a camera from B&H or others like them. Saving a few bucks on the purchase price isn’t always saving money. Service after the sale is so important. Over the years I’ve found that companies like Able Cine, ProSource, Trew Audio and many others may be a few bucks more than B&H and Custom Supply but the big gain is customer service after the sale. When I bought my VariCam from ProSource they brought me to the office for a 1 on 1 session on the camera. When I had a problem with the camera and it was at Panasonic for service they made sure I had a loaner for a shoot. The box houses by design can’t do that. They bring it in and ship it out. If it doesn’t work, ship it back and get a replacement or refund. They don’t have service departments and they don’t have, for the most part, any expertise with the equipment. For my money and there is less of it today than in years past but for my money I’ll pay a few dollars more for the service after the sale.

John, I think your mind is made up about the 300 but perhaps you might want to send the camera back to B&H and get a demo from someone in DC. I have been very happy with the look of my 300.
Good luck

Dale West Video
North Miami, FL
305-892-1201