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How should I export for best quality?
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I appreciate the information. I ran a scene through JES Deinterlacer and the lines are, more the most part, gone now. Does that seem right if this is, in fact, the issue?
Do the above scenes look like the pulldown issue is the case?
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A few corrections.
“When I watched it full size” means “when I exported and watched the clip.”
We didn’t shoot 24pa, we shot 24p.
I did notice, at one point, when I exported full scenes and burned them to a DVD to watch for matching when shooting scenes in the same location later, there was a lot of odd interlacing artifacts. However, when I exported a series of random shots to a DVD (a trailer I cut together), I didn’t see these issues.
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Thank you for the response. I guess I’ll have to see why it get these interlace artifacts when I burn to DVD sometimes.
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[Dave LaRonde] “[Charles House] “We didn’t shoot 24pa, we shot 24p.”
Then consider your bullet fully dodged. You’re good to go in terms of frame rate.”
I’d consider it only partially dodged — he’s virtually guaranteed to have broken cadence throughout. Instead of the judder frames appearing at nice, regular intervals throughout the entire piece, each shot will have its own cadence, and joined shots may differ.
Deinterlacing is one solution, but it will pose two new problems: you will lose resolution, and the video will appear to stutter as the deinterlaced frames reveal the repeated fields from the original pulldown.
This project needs to get back to 24p, either by removing pulldown and reconforming, or trying the Compressor Reverse Telecine as I mentioned before.
Unfortunately, editing in 29.97 was the wrong workflow from the beginning, and what would have been easy to start correctly is now difficult to finish correctly.
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
[Dave LaRonde] “Y’know, I’d agree… IF the footage wasn’t cut at 29.97 and IF the final destination was something other than a standard DVD. You can work around those goofy frames where you have a field from one frame and a field from the next frame IF you’re careful and understand what’s going on.”
But his next step is effects, not DVD. I wouldn’t want to be the AE artist tasked with making this work as-is.
[Dave LaRonde] “That’s a lot of ifs, but people used to cut 24p film transfers all the time at 29.97 for standard-def network TV shows on linear editing systems, no big deal. CMX, anyone?”
That’s still a possible solution now. He could use FCP’s Media Manager to copy his project and then export a 29.97 EDL. Next, he could use Cinema Tools to remove the pulldown from the media managed clips and export a 24 from 30 EDL. Finally, back in FCP, he could reload the EDL and reconnect the media.
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
The last suggestion is Spanglish to me.
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I don’t think that’s going to happen. I suppose I’ll just have to deal with it.
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Hi Charles,
See the Wikipedia page on telecine 2:3 pulldown for a graphical explanation of why your 24p frames look the way they do in 29.97 fps video.
Essentially, 2:3 pulldown stuffs 4 film frames (A B C D) into 5 video frames, each of which is made up of two interlaced fields, in a specific pattern — AA BB BC CD DD. You get two video fields of one film frame followed by three fields of the next.
The DVX100 does this same thing to get from the progressive 24p frames the sensor sees to a 29.97 NTSC signal it can record on tape.
The best workflow for you would have been to reverse telecine your video clips before you started editing, going from 29.97 (AA BB BC CD DD) to 24p (A B C D). Then you would have edited in 24p with all clean frames.
Since you edited without doing this reverse telecine, you have “dirty” frames throughout your video.
Another option you might try is using JES Deinterlacer on your exported movie to inverse telecine, with the “Detect cadence breaks” option checked. This will give you a 24p movie (like using Compressor with Reverse Telecine does), removing the dirty frames and reconstructing the split C frame. It may or may not have trouble at edit points and over dissolves, but it might be worth a shot.
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
HAhaha I asked this same question and this guy gave me grief about not doing thing correctly in the first place. I know I messed up in the first place thats why i’m looking for help haha. Anyways here is a tutorial on the best way to salvage 23.98 fps from 29.97 fps
https://philipbloom.net/2009/05/30/how-to-convert-canon-5dmk2-footage-from-30p-to-24p/the only thing I found was that when you are retiming your footage that there is a very slight frame adjustment that occurs when switching frame rates. So when you are checking for your runtime, first place your audio into your new timeline and get the runtime from that. I found it slips out of sync just a little bit otherwise.
If anyone has a better way to do this I would love to hear it
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Unfortunately, the method you’ve liked to won’t work in this specific case, because this footage is not 30p. The DVX100 footate is captured at 24p, with 2:3 pulldown to 29.97 fps on tape.
The issue here is not retiming — it’s eliminating the dirty pulldown frames to get back to the original 24p.
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events
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