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How much should I charge to produce a documentary for someone?
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From videos to Nazism in one easy thread. Wow.
Come on man – I’m needling you for a reason; to acknowledge that giving away personal labour rates on a public forum without lots of information first is a big step. You haven’t behaved like a saint on here. If you feel victimised then tough; I post in the business forum all the time – not just because of you.
It’s a hard thing costing for video projects – you need to think of every single factor that will come your way over the course of the production, weigh that up with your experience and skillset, decide how much you want to do the work and then come up with a daily/hourly/project fee. Heck – I’ve charged anything from £25 per hour up to £250 per hour; it’s hugely dependent on each project I’ve undertaken and what it demands. There aren’t any simple documentaries.
I wont post again when your name crops up. Good luck with it.
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Yes Sebastian, you’ve got to learn how to communicate first. Try to be polite. This is a forum for pros. Mark can’t be available to referee all the time. Also, check your spelling, punctuation, grammar and tense then proof read so we all know you are educated…
Let me help you out since until recently docs was my specialty. I am now corporate centric because I figured out (too late in life) that is where the big money is. First off, when anyone calls or emails and asks how much “by the hour”, that is a strong clue that they have never hired video pros before and I will tell them I have a half day, or what I call my Short Day Rate, which is about 2/3rds of my Full Day Rate. The only people in our field who do hourly charges are the legal videographers and they will usually have a two or three hour minimum. Besides the time you take preparing your gear there is also the commute back and forth so there is no way a pro can survive working by the hour.
I have shot many of these vanity or legacy videos, usually for some zillionaire about to have a big birthday, their children pay for it, or a CEO retiring, usually shown at a banquet. I haven’t produced them just have been the videographer on them. If I were you I would ask them to send you some links to similar videos that they liked, that way you get an idea of the quality level and can figure out if you can do it alone or need some crew. Next I would figure out based on what they have told me how many days of shooting there will be. These things tend to have lots of talking heads so it could take a weekend of filming at the family’s estate. Usually there are many still photos they want you to make a nice treatment of, in which case I recommend templates from motionvfx.com
In terms of editing you can’t quote by the hour, these types of clients want to know what the final cost will be, so you have to guesstimate for yourself how long it will take with the usual revisions back and forth, plus how many DVDs they will order. Large super wealthy families may order quite a few. Once I have figured out how much I would like to charge and I have an idea as to how long it will take me, plus if I have to hire some crew, I then ask the prospect what they wanted to “keep it under”. I was taught to ask that before presenting my estimate. Why? Because what they say may be much higher than what I was about to say. There are producers who specialize in these mini documentaries and you can research what kind of range they get:
https://movingportraits.tv
https://www.familylinestudios.com
https://www.treeringfilms.com/Legacy-Video-Products/Family-Documentary-Epic-Package.aspxThe one thing they will have in common is they are dealing with families that are wealthy, otherwise it’s not worth the aggravation and time. I’m guessing but I think something under five minutes for a wealthy family would be $3500-$6000. That is just my educated guess. Sometimes if I feel that the prospect is merely a tire kicker, calling lots of video people for prices, I will ask right off what did they want to “keep it under”. If I consider their answer to be too low I will refer them to someone I know to be much cheaper than myself as a favor or a good bottle of wine.
So (and you should never start a sentence with So), that’s my two cents from someone doing this from before you were born. Many things will change in our industry but pricing psychology seems to have stayed the same. Since you do weddings that would be a good way to network and learn if (wealthy) families are interested in a legacy video, especially if a loved one such as The Patriarch of The Family is about to meet their maker. If they liked your wedding video that’s a jumping off point for more work besides weddings.
This time when you respond, if you still need to respond, I think it would be a good idea to start your persona anew. Hit Reset. Check your spelling, punctuation, grammar, tense and attitude. Be deferential to those who know so much more than you yet are taking time out of Happy Hour, like I am.
Later
Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com
www,bizvideo.com -
Thank you and yes that is why I apologized. I do appreciate the documentary advice.
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Hi Sebastian,
I’ve read your last couple of threads with interest.
I’ve been flicking through this forum for 10 years or more, but today is the first time I can remember someone referring to another as a Nazi. Id never thought about Godwins Law in relation to “Business and Marketing” on the Cow. Congratulations.Re: Your original question…
I would definitely stick with beautiful HD wedding videos. This seems to be a market you’re doing good in.
Crawling around in the dirt in Afghanistan is an entirely different story.
Restrepo wasn’t a great docu because of the style of camera work. Restrepo was a great docu because of the story, and the emotions it cultivated. Without that, it was shite. I’ve seen better camera work on my 13 year olds homemade skate videos.So.
13 year old shooting handheld skate videos with a Flip-Cam (But HD)… $5 per hourAmateur with prosumer camera with no support, crawling through dirt filming people he knows getting killed, having his arse shot at by Taliban extremists who would like nothing more than to bag a westerner… $36,425.50 per hour. Come to think of it, make that $136,425.50
I hope this helps. Good Luck in business.
Simon
The more I learn, the more I realise how little I know.
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Yes I imagine a thirteen year old crawling in the dirt would get about 5 an hour. I’m saying that it would be restrepo in the sense that there will be no crew and one camera. The things I will be filming are very dangerous and illigal. Ill be moving around a lot, the logistics of a crew would not work in this situation. And yes the story is worth telling and brings up tons of emotion. I would not do this unless it was worth it. I apologized to him for the rash nazi comment. But I guess your saying I’m a thirteen year old crawling around with a camera? Ill let it go tho.
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Ned, I would like to apologize to you for my un becoming behavior this week. I’m not normally like this. I believe I’m just having a bad week. Thank you for all your help, it is valued and appreciated. Same goes to anyone else on here I might have been rude to.
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OK cool. This is a great place to learn the biz side of video production. I have learned a lot and I have been in this circus for 33 years. So don’t be too quick to take offense or attack and we’ll all be willing to answer your questions.
If you look at all the forums on Cow this is the most crucial one. Why? Because if you can’t make a decent profit on a regular basis then there is no way you can stay in production or post, except as a hobby. Any chimp with some technical skill and basic creativity can muddle through and make a video. However, there are very, very few who have figured out how to run a real business in video where you can steadily pay for rent, groceries, car payment, health insurance and bowling league fees. This is especially true for all the new people under 30 because now the rates are so damn low. So learning the business side is all important.
This forum is invaluable to bounce ideas off folks and gather new ways of doing things. Just above this thread is a bookkeeping thread and we helped the guy with his decision. In sum, you want to be BUDDIES with the people here, even if some grate on you, because you will need this forum to help grow your business and learn about the side of video that will help you survive. Always remember: Anyone can make video but very, very few can make a living at video. The people here will help show you how but only if you come across as appreciative and likable.
In sum, we all like to help the new folks, just be cool.
Later,
Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com
www,bizvideo.com -
Well said, Ned. Those bowling league fees are a real budget buster.
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Whoohh… you guys bowl?!
Production is fun – but lets not forget: Nobody ever died on the video table!
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Sebastian,
One more way to look it….. most camera ops, DP’s etc in my market usually charge a day rate based on 10 hours…. if you usually charge $30 per hour, I would say charge $300 per 10 hour day. Why per day? It keeps your client from using you for one hour here, two hours there, etc…. and forces them to commit to planning for days of shooting… not hours. If you have some days that are very short, you may also consider a 1/2 day rate… most guys usually charge 2/3 of the day rate for up to 5 hours, since you will not be able to book other shoots on that day. (Opportunity costs)
Like many others have already said….. there are many factors that determine what your day rate will be and the people trying to help you were only trying to get more information to determine what a fair rate for you to charge should be. Hope you find all the feedback helpful.
Bill Paris
Producer/Director of Photography
Crew Hawaii Television
http://www.crewhawaii.com
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