HDX900 crew rates and rental pricing

[Richard Boghosian]

Get out your soldering iron. Fortunately the manual tells you exactly how to wire the 3 pin to the 5 pin. As far as crew rates go, I shoot with a 5.3×10 Angenieux on the HDX-900, 17″ Panasonic, HMI and Kino Flo’s -look much better than tungsten on location, and a stick and wireless with a sound/grip person for $3,100 and depending on the amount of additional lighting gear or mini track I might need, the rate can go to $3,700 with a prompter and operator. BTW, once the client has seen this camera on the Panny 17″, they are ready to use this camera on every shoot going forward. “Wow these new digital cameras really look very good now”. And anyone looking for a rental in the NE area, Rule Broadcast is an excellent rental source.

Richard Boghosian
Bogh AV Productions

[John Sharaf]

Alright, I’ve been laying back on this thread, because I agree with Tony S. that there is no one price for a crew with an HD camera; obviously it depends on the client and nature of the assignment, but for anything but high end commercial work, I just can’t believe this $3100 figure!

For Betacam crews, the average pricing has been in the $1350-$1500 range for two technicians, basic audio and lighting. I’ve managed to up this to $2000 with the Varicam and to $2200 for the Cine Alta. There are occassions I’m able to get as much as $1200 for a Varicam package and $1500 for a Cine Alta plus labor, and of course there are many a la carte extras like wa lens, monitors, waveform, fiber cable, hmi lights, grip truck package etc. where I can run up a bill to more than the $3100 mentioned, but I think we must all be reasonable as regards the rates possible with a $25K camera and for work that essentially is replacing that which we did with the Betacam.

It won’t be long now until the 2/3″ HD XDCAM appears and it’s extremely likely that we will return to a more ubiquitous one-size-fiots all format. Almost certainly (with the anticipated addition of 720p) all three major broadcasts news operations (ABC,CBS & NBC) will specify this camera and freelancers who work for one, two or all three will be confident in buying in because of the greatest certainty yet of paying off the upgrade will exist.

For those of us who have been early adopters of Cine Altas, Varicams and their various permutations, we can at least leverage our investment in HD glass, monitors and other infrastructure with any newer camera/format. It’s quite likely the the 2/3″ HD XDCAM will be in the $40000 range for the body so there will be another shake out on rental price just as we’re seeing now with the HDX900. The difference will be that the network news operations will (as they’ve done in the Betacam era) establish a fixed price for the camera package, and probably at a rate lower than anyone’s charging now for their HD cameras!

Unfortunately the HD XDCAM will probably not satisfy everyone and the high end commercial, episodic TV and independent filmmakers (with means) will prefer something better, so various formats will proliferate and coexist. Holdovers of Cine Alta, Varicam and HDX900’s will have legs in closed loop production environments and of course other new formats (like Infinity and Panasonic P2) will also compete. P2 could be viable if 64Gb cards come out at a fair price and allow D5 type recording, 1080p and/or 120fps slo-mo frame rates.

Richard, God bless you if you’re able to get that $3100 rate, I can’t and I have some really good clients, who I’d definately alienate (or at least loose business from) if I insisted or even quoted such prices.

In terms of gettimng the best deal for myself, it’s always been my habit, when possible, to ask the new or potential client what price they have in mind. Sometimes I’m suprised by how much they have to spend, and I’ll gladly accomodate; but my fear/expectation is that the more these “inexpensive” HD cameras proliferate, the more competitive and cutthroat the pricing will be, kind of along the lines of the “half day” rates that we’ve all had to adjust to in the last few years. In the end I believe that the rates for both labor and gear will level out a little higher than at present (Betacam rates).

One has to look at this HD thing in two ways; it certainly is a great improvement in technology, and can’t help but make our work better, more interestimng, more fun and potentialy more profitable, but the ROI is in no way predictable until such time as a format arrives that is more universally accepted. Despite the success I’ve had in the last few years with DVCPRO100, I think it’s safe to say that it is no Betacam in terms of its potential longevity!

JMHO.

[Tom Miller]

I’m interested in learning how you are all positioning the HDX900 to your clients and potential clients. Varicam and CineAlte are so branded and asked for in this industry by name by people (like young production managers) who only know that’s what they are supposed to ask for, that I wonder how you describe this camera and convince those less technically savy. In otherwords, someone call and asks for a Varicam. You say, our Varicam is not available but we have the HDX 900, which is almost like the Varicam except it doesn’t have as much variety in it’s frame rate, it’s 14 bit instead of 12, the shutter isn’t variable, and it will cost you less to hire us with it. Is that how the conversation goes, or are DPs starting to get calls asking for this camera in particular? Any input here would be great, as I’m on the fence about adding one to our packages.

Also, can I hand a DVC Pro tape from this camera to anyone who is used to getting a Varicam tape and from their point of view (and in post) is it exactly the same?

And finally, does anyone have any experience with the Fuji lens that Panasonic will package with the HDX900? I’ve heard from a Canon rep (of course) that it’s a pretty low end high def lens (they are calling it “industrial”. Fuji rep claims it’s as good as there others.

As far as rates go, it seems like $2,200-2,500 for 2-person crew is about where we seem to be settling in the Denver market for F900’s and Varicam packages well equiped. I’m feeling 2k for the HDX900.

By the way, this is a great thread. It’s good to here this conversation about rates by fellow industry professionals in other markets.

Thanks for any feedback here.

Tom Miller
Big Pictures
http://www.getbigpix.com

[The Flying shooter]

I got an adapter from John O’Keefe at ProSource. (800) 322-7767 We’re pricing the HDX900 camera and two man crew at 600.00 more than our Betacam rates. That includes SD442, 5 radio mics (2 for wireless umbillical), boom,
tripod, extensive field lighting kit and C-stands. I’m including the BT-LH900 in my package, but charging 150.00 additional for the 17″ widescreen. I also carry 2 Joker 400’s, a Kobold 200w portable HMI and a 5.2 wide angle, but charge additionally for these as needed or requested.

Jim

[Tom Miller]

Here in the Denver area, we are also charging $2,250 for a two-person crew. This seems to be the going rate across the country for this camera, with a well-equipped lighting and sound support package.

Tom Miller
Big Pictures Media, Inc.
Colorado Camera Crews & Equipment
http://www.BigPicturesMedia.com

[John Sharaf]

If I asked for $2250 I’d never get a job and I have a really nice kit and many years of work for A-list clients. I usually ask the prospective client what price they have in mind and go from there. If pressed I’d bid something more like $1750-2000/10 hours portal to portal, and quote add-ons per use for 2nd (wide angle) lens and 800/1200 HMI’s. Obviously in this economic climate it’s harder to command the highest rates, except from return clients who have paid that rate in the past and were happy enough to come back knowing what it will cost.

JS

[Nick Teti]

As a Denver HDX 900 cameraman & camera crew, I am charging 2250 for a 2 person crew along with the national average. I figure keeping rates on par, along with par HDX 900 camera packages keeps the economy stable (or as good as it can be with great humor). The HDX 900 Denver and Colorado wide rate I offer is 1850 per single cameraman standard with HD wide angle lens, lighting, camera support etc. I like the HDX 900 compared to the VariCam for overall shooting resolutions and frame rates with either NTSC or PAL HD, 720p or 1080i/p making it a great ENG, EFP HD camera for freelance camera people or HD camera crews.

[Nick Teti]

If you have a HD lens and plenty of camera support I’d suggest keeping up with the national average for a HDX 900 camera crew at 2,250 and more if you’re bringing more HMI’s or specified equipment. All the reputable HDX 900 camera crews are doing a affordable, yet professional service for their clients. I’d stand your ground on rates as the amount of money going into a HDX 900 camera includes partially: quality HD lens – 9,000+ and up (for a non-wide angle), HD Monitor, professional tripod, camera mic, tripod plate, high capacity costlier batteries, mattebox, lighting package and sound package + crew labor. The rentals costs for the gear alone exceed 2,250, plus insurance and the other costs we have as professional HDX 900 camera crew. Stand your ground, as 2,250 is a more than reasonable rate for a HDX 900 2 person camera crew. Sorry for a staunch tone, for all fellow HDX 900 ‘afficionados’/camera crews we deserve the rate.

[Tom Miller]

It’s amazing that we are still responding to a thread that started in 2006 – when few had even heard of the HDX900! Now it’s fully entrenched as one of the most flexible cameras out there. But as this economy hits our business, I suppose it’s always valuable to reflect on rates. By the way, Nick, masterful use of keywords!

Tom Miller
Big Pictures, Denver
(303) 670-0625

http://www.BigPicturesMedia.com

“Award-Winning Camera Crews and Production Services in the Rocky Mountain West”

[Mark Doyle]

Amen Nick!

I hope everyone realizes the economy will never recover (for us) if rates are not maintained at a fair level! $2300 is not a lot to ask for a professional crew, $100k of equipment, insurance, and a vehicle to carry it all and the client all over the place.

While your market may vary, know you are cutting your own throat – as well as your friend’s – by working at sub-standard rates!

Keep your p**ker hard and your powder dry & the world will turn.