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Has Sony lost the plot
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JR, I use nested vegs in a similar manner to what you describe and have come to really appreciate this feature of Vegas for complex intros, titles, credits, etc.
One additional use I recently learned for nested vegs: A few weeks ago I videoed a recital and produced a nice one hour DVD for the client. We then decided we would like a “trailer” or short of the recital for promotional reasons. I started a new project, then imported my original veg into the new project’s media. Next, I opened the original veg in the trimmer, selected various segments, and put them into a single track in the new timeline. This way I was able to easily reuse my color correction, transitions and other effects to build a trailer without dealing with the complexity of the multiple tracks in the original. This was a great time saver.
Jerry
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I cut the first animatic (1st full version of film for studio screening) for the CG comedy “Barnyard: The Original Party Animals” using only Vegas. We also cut the pilot and first 4 episodes of “Back at the Barnyard” the Emmy Winning Nick series on Vegas before moving it over to FCP for codec reasons. We also did the CG comedy series Dirk Derby Wonder Jockey using Vegas for all editing AND post sound. We also remastered and remixed the IMAX 3D film Santa vs. The Snowman in Vegas all in uncompressed 1080p.
Recent Indie features I’ve done some or all work in Vegas include “A Letter to Dad” post sound. “The Passing” editing and all post sound, “SPECK” editing and sound, The Boston Strangler – main title design and sound. We will also be mixing the upcoming faith-based feature CUTBACK in Vegas 9 providing we don’t crash or have the issues we are currently having. Many other indie features I’ve done work on all using Vegas.
Lance Bachelder
Southern California -
This way I was able to easily reuse my color correction, transitions and other effects to build a trailer without dealing with the complexity of the multiple tracks in the original. This was a great time saver.
Jerry, Cool use of nested projects for a highlights/trailer video. I’ll have to remember that one. 😉
~jr
http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com -
Ah Ha My post sure provoked some excellent responses aye !.
Obviously we all use Vegas and consider it the best that’s why we are on this Forum isnt it ?My comment clearly said that other programs were “catching up …perhaps no where near in the same race as Vegas but it is always interesting to keep and eye on what others are doing .
I frequently dowload the free trials of programs to see how they are going .
I totally agree with you about Pinnacle Studio it was absolutly apalling but my latest recent test on Ver 14 never crashed (must be a first for Pinnacle) Ha ha and was a lot more impressive and Corel Studio has recently released a version 13 I thnk that is a lot faster usnig multple threads ect.(Both nowhere near Vegas I admit)
but at least they worked Vegas 9e didnt !Anyway back to our favourite Sony Vegas, ,Whilst I agree with most of your comments John the fact remains that whether or not Sony is affected by economic circumstanses or not if a customer purchases one of thier products it must work properly, I can see no reason to exempt software manufacturers from what we expect from any other Manufacturer.
Sure it’s complicated but so are lots of other things ….Just look at Toyota motors recent problems, and who will ever forget Microsoft’s Millennium !!.
In my beleif people who have purchased items whether software or other items the manufacturers are producing these items for sale to make profits ! and as such they should be liable if it doesnt work properly …Microsoft never gives refunds or compensation to purchsers of their software that does not do what it’s suposed to do neither do any other software manufacturer but I believe they should, the car companies and other manufacturers have to !!,
These people are getting away with being irrisponsible and no amount of excuses is good enough, If Toyota were to say “well due to economic circumstanses we had to rely on oour customers to check the car is safe” can you imagine the reaction, Well the same goes for Sony or any other software producing company in my book -
Vegas doesn’t cost anywhere near what a Toyota vehicle costs. If it did, then there would be lots of room to howl. However, if that were the case, you could be sure that it would take a looooooong time before revisions were released to the public.
Let’s get it back into the right ballpark. This is software. No one that I know of in a professional IT position would ever accept a new release of software without extensive testing to see if it works. If, after extensive testing, problems are found, the problems go back to the vendor and the software is not installed. IOW, all new software is installed on a tentative basis. If it doesn’t work, you drop back to the last good release. Does that excuse Sony for delivering new versions with bugs? Of course not! However, it is a fact of life that new software releases may have new bugs. No manufacturer is immune from that. A prudent business cannot blindly install a new release and put themselves out of business.
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“…- Defend Sony and Vegas all you want but why? If they’ve broken something, and they have, they need to listen and fix it!
If they have broken something *AND* can reproduce the problem, then they will fix it. Three or four users with problems after the upgrade hardly makes a compelling argument to drop everything else to fix the issue. The generated text bug that was introduced in an earlier release comes to mind. The problems with the generated text was widespread AND repeatable. And it got fixed pretty fast.
Steve Mann
MannMade Digital Video
http://www.mmdv.com -
“Obviously we all use Vegas”
Yes.
“and consider it the best”
No.
“that’s why we are on this Forum isnt it?”
No.
“My comment clearly said that other programs were “catching up …perhaps no where near in the same race as Vegas but it is always interesting to keep and eye on what others are doing .
I frequently dowload the free trials of programs to see how they are going .”Well, I’m not sure how you define “catching up” but I certainly don’t see Vegas being ahead of several other NLEs. Perhaps in some areas Vegas does things easier, or better, but in the places that matter to *me*, Vegas has a LOT of work to do. Areas like stability, titling, accepting and working with professional formats, rendering speed, real-time performance, collaboration, etc.
Vegas has issues that are really only going to be solved with a ground-up re-think. Such as the refusal to support GPU processing. Long-GOP codecs are here to stay. DV is essentially dead. The days are gone when we could simply rely on the CPU to do the heavy lifting and get real-time performance. Yes, in 2-3 years the CPUs alone will be fast enough to handle AVCHD, and maybe even the stuff coming off the current iteration of the Canon cameras. But by then, the market will have moved on.
So SCS can either continue to work behind the curve, or jump on it or in front of it. Their competitors have ALL made significant strides in recent years in collaboration, stability, timeline performance, etc. Vegas’s stability is worse, collaboration still suffers horribly, and timeline performance with most HD formats is woeful.
Vegas 10 may address these issues. I have no idea. But I will say this. Adobe and Avid got my attention last year. This year, Avid got my money. I suspect in 2010 CS5 and Media Composer 5 will get the money of a LOT of professional editors.
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I just installed Pro version 9e 32-bit and now I’m so sorry I didn’t read the forum here first. I can’t even get 9e to open. Now I have to waste my time and uninstall 9e, reinstall 9c or 9d, and most likely have to re-install all my plug-ins and probably re-activate them, a total pain in the rear end. Just to get back to a program that will HOPEFULLY open!
I work in IT and hate to be the cutting edge, so I usually sit back for a while, e.g. never even bothered looking at or trying Vista, just stayed with my XP.
Anyway, you seem to be blaming complexity of software. I work in the software market, and I can tell you two things that have been happening more and more over the past few years to many companies.
1- outsourcing to overseas shops- the quality is super low, the capabilities and processes are not understood, old code is not managed by the people that wrote it, pieces start to get corrupted, and things continue to go downhill from there. Executives are under pressure to show cost saving so they take the easy way out, at first just showing they have cut down the rates paid to the developers, but as time goes on more and more projects take longer and longer to get done due to the communication issues, the delays of not having constant work going on in the same time zones, etc. Just like everything else in life we start to outsource everything to people somewhere else and sure enough the quality suffers more and more. It’s not rocket science.
2- those programmers who do stick around and who get to work on the software here at home are less and less managed and rely less and less on formal methodologies. QA departments are mostly outsourced, otherwise the pay is dirt cheap and they get no support from management when they point out all the issues with the code. Management pushes things through to release anyway and overpowers QA, who often get code that has supposedly been unit-tested by developers who actually don’t have a clue how to test anything and no managers who will force them to do any formal testing.
I know, I see this every day. Development departments will argue all day long that they do unit testing and that QA is adequate, yet most of them truly don’t know what they are talking about. The proof is staring them in the face yet they deny it. I’ve seen this at most of the top software companies around, it’s epidemic. It’s evident in year-long issues with corporate websites like a particular hotel and airline website I use all the time. Functionality goes down all the time while serious issues and bugs continue to proliferate. The higher the version number of some IT-centric software the worse the quality. It’s getting worse across the board, not better.
Anyway, just thought I’d give a very likely reason behind all the issues we’ve been seeing with Sony Vegas in the past few releases. Sadly I do not expect it to get better. The only way it would (if my assumptions are correct) is to get back the original programmers, let them fix the code, even if they have to get rid of or redo recent features, and then build on top of a stable base. I doubt this will happen, and I expect it to get worse not better.
If Apple or Adobe are doing a better job perhaps they have a stronger methodology or have not been as quick to just outsource everything as a cheap and easy way to show some kind of savings.
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Anyway, just thought I’d give a very likely reason behind all the issues we’ve been seeing with Sony Vegas in the past few releases.
While I agree with your assessment of how off-shoring is adversely affecting the quality of software in the world, and how corporate management is clueless and part of the problem… nothing could be further from the truth at Sony Creative Software.
If you want to work on the Vegas Pro, Acid Pro, or Sound Forge development team, you need to pack up your bags and move to Madison Wisconsin, USA. The whole team is all together in Madison just like they were in the Sonic Foundry days. Off-shoring has nothing to do with it.
~jr
http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com
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