Handheld Mic is Noisy…Why?

[Brian Reynolds]

I think I might have the reason… you have a balanced mic going into an unbalanced stereo input. You need to get a correctly made cord that will send the mic signal to BOTH left and right of the cam corder. At the moment tou have the positive of the mic signal going to Left and the negative of the signal going to Right.

Pin 1 of the mic needs to end up on the ‘sleave’ of the camcorder input connector.
Pin 2 of the mic needs to end up on BOTH the ‘tip’ and ‘ring’ of the camcorder input connector.
Pin 3 of the mic needs to be joined up with ‘sleave’ at the camcroder input connector.

ANY OTHER combination WILL give you trouble.

[Norm Kaiser]

OK…here’s where I wade into murky waters for me.

I have three mics. All three mics terminate into a mono (one black ring) 1/4 inch plug.

So…that means the mics are unbalanced, correct?

So to overcome the fact that it’s a mono plug, I have a mono 1/4 inch to stereo mini adapter.

My thought was this would just put the same mono signal into both tracks, left and right.

This seems to work very well except for the handling noise.

And just to educate myself — in order to have a balanced connection, you have to have three tips, correct? That is, if the cord terminates into a 1/4 plug, the 1/4 plug would have to have two black rings around it, correct?

[Brian Reynolds]

Yep you are now into a very grey area… lets assume the xlr connector is wired correctly… the first point of doubt is the 1/4″ mono connector, the next point of doubt is the converter to mini jack, then the next point of doubt is the connection into the camcorder.

So realisticly there might be 6-8 possible connection variations in the set up you have….. Yes they may all physicaly fit together but I very much doubt if you have the correct connections.

I have NEVER found a correctly wired ‘off the shelf’ adaptor to suit stereo camcorder mic inputs.

[Norm Kaiser]

Understood. But then why is the sound quality so good? The sound of the speaker is exceptional. My only problem is the handling noise. I would think that if my connections were wrong the mic would either not work at all or sound like crap…right?

[Brian Reynolds]

Is the sound level ‘low’ compared to other recordings?
It may not be as the auto gain has raised the level so high that even the slightest handling noise will 50 times (or more) louder than it should be.

[Norm Kaiser]

That’s an idea. How do I check that?

I’m thinking no, as the camcorder has a mic level setting, which is a little slider bar thing, and the slider bar thing has a -12dB indicator on it, and I have the mic set right around that indicator.

But maybe you’re on to something! Is it possible this camcorder requires a mic that is self-powered (i.e., a batter?) and since I’m using a simple plug-in dynamic mic it’s turning up the gain?

[Craig Alan]

https://www.mediacollege.com/audio/connection/connectors.html

Canon recommends stereo condensor mikes with 3.5mm plug. Since condenser mikes are powered it helps send a strong enough signal to your cheap preamp which is used in all these minicams.

But getting back to the theory that the camera is auto boosting the signal:

Put the camera in manual adjustment for audio. There is one bar that indicates the level (the one with -12 marked) and the other is how high the signal has been adjusted. So you should visually see if that is the case. Not sure if auto gain remains in effect somehow even when using the manual controls.

I still can’t tell what mikes you’ve tried. Radio shack omni and uni? What models? You plugged in your xlr into these mikes or did they come wired already with a plug meant for PA powered speaker? (thus mono).

I would consider either getting a small mixer that can provide phantom power or getting a mike that can be powered with a battery. Do a search for both shure and Audio Technica for ENG condenser battery powered hand-held stereo mike. Then check prices and reviews on BHphoto.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Ty Ford]

Norm,

Please present model numbers and names so we can more quickly get you your answer.

Regards,

Ty Ford
Cow Audio Forum Leader

Want better production audio?: Ty Ford’s Audio Bootcamp Field Guide
Ty Ford Blog: Ty Ford’s Blog

[Norm Kaiser]

Camera: Canon Vixia HF21
Mic #1: Pyle PDMIC58
Mic #2: Radio Shack 33-3042
Mic #3: Radio Shack 33-3039

[Ty Ford]

OK,

These are low dollar mics that attempt to look like an SM58. So clones. No guarantees that they bear ANY resemblance to an SM58.

Yes, your mics are unbalanced. I doubt a simple mono to stereo adapter will work. In fact, a dynamic mic may not work well because all dynamic mics are low in sensitivity compared to condenser mics. Because of this, if the camera preamp has not been designed to provide good, clean, quiet gain, you will be unhappy with the results.

That means the mics themselves may be the problem. Brian or Craig gave you a list of professional mics used for this type of job. Perhaps this is the time to begin building a proper audio kit. These are professional mics. They require a cable with female XLR on one end and a 1/8″ TRS on the other that has been specially wired with pin 2 to the tip and ring. Tip and ring will connect to the left and right camera inputs properly. This connection puts the audio on both tracks of your camcorder.

What city are you in?

Regards,

Ty Ford

Want better production audio?: Ty Ford’s Audio Bootcamp Field Guide
Ty Ford Blog: Ty Ford’s Blog