Giving away your product

[Simon Roughan]

Thanks for that Mark. Lots of good ideas there as well.
I sort of shot myself in the foot as well. As I said above, I introduced this way of production to the firm.

[Simon Roughan]

Wow, Grinner. Such venom!
I was originally asking for advice on how to deal with a sales dept. that has no idea of the production process, and doesnt want to know. Just as long as quality spots keep flowing off the conveyor belt. I dont believe we should be giving work away for free.
Your answer was all cable spots are crap, and a waste of time for the customer.
Quote “You’d be surprised at how many people still think advertising on local television is somehow beneficial in this ADD, tivo world. If somebody doesn’t hold them by the hand and explain they are paying for folks to pee, hit the fridge, or fast forward through their dollars, it just doesn’t dawn on them.”
So basically your advice was, or so it seems to me, is to tell a customer not to advertise on cable at all, as its a waste of time and money.

An youre a moderator on a business forum.

[Grinner Hester]

So basically your advice was, or so it seems to me, is to tell a customer not to advertise on cable at all, as its a waste of time and money.

I do when they ask. Sometimes I just make the spot and they do the media buying. When I spearhead the whole thing, I simply put their dollars to the best use.

[Mark Suszko]

Grinner makes an excellent point, Simon. When your job is just to make the donuts, you make them best as you can and that’s it. If you are hired to be more than that, to be a communications consultant, then you have a duty to educate the client and help them avoid wasting their money, and this is what the hotrod editor grinman is telling you. And he’s right that small-market local cable spots are a terrible way to advertise. It’s just that they are often the least-terrible of a bunch of more terrible options.

Your duty is to serve the client’s best interests when you are in this consultant type of job. I have several times in my career told a client “This is a job best suited to another kind of media; video is not the best use of your money this time for what you want to accomplish”. In every such case, it never hurt my relationship with the client to be that honest with them. Indeed it built trust that I was there to really make their plans successful, and not just to take their money and deliver a useless product. It helped that I offered constructive alternatives and an explanation why the alternative was a better fit for that specific need. Your job is broader than just making videos, videos may only be a small part of the overall campaign. You’re really in the business of solving their communications problems. Any way that’s most effective. I sense that Grinner gets to be that kind of consultant often, but Simon, you’re not in that position, the bosses made that painfully clear to you.

Don’t think badly of Grinner for telling it like it is – not only is it just his nature, it is often his actual job to be painfully frank. There ARE a lot of bad and wasteful videos being made out there by somebody. There is also art being made. And sometimes art and commerce come together in a mutually pleasant way. It isn’t the norm, but it can happen. With luck, it will happen for you eventually too.

[Nick Griffin]

[Mark Suszko] “you are not going to get your Maslovian Hierarchy satisfied, working at that place”

Awww, Mark. Maslovian Hierarchy, REALLY?? Do you really need to prove that the money spent on a college education was worthwhile when you went into a career in video anyway? 😉

Good points, though.

[Mark Grossardt]

Simon,

I’ve been there, man, and I feel for you.

In addition to some of the great advice above, I’d suggest finding a few allies on your sales team. Try to understand where they’re coming from. In many cases these poor salespeople get hammered on by a sales manager every day. If it’s not a sales manager, it’s a general manager, and the message is always the same: “Get out there and sell! We need more revenue!” Sales is tough, especially in this economic climate.

Now, not every salesperson makes a good ally, so use your best judgment, but approaching a few of them with the case, “Hey, tough times out there for you, huh? What can I do to make your job easier? What can I do with this spot to really make you a hero in the eyes of your client?” I bet you could get invited into a few creative meetings with the client that way.

Consider cutting something great for one of your biggest clients as a thank you. Brainstorm with your new friends in sales to come up with likely targets to pitch. The client will definitely appreciate it and probably won’t have any problem with you using their spot as a shining example of great production. Just make sure other prospective clients aren’t aware that the spot was done gratis.

When I worked in the commercial production department at a TV station, I put together a reel with spots ranging from bottom of the barrel to higher end. In a corresponding brochure I clearly explained production costs pertaining to each spot. Sales reps could take these materials out on sales calls and let the client decide if they wanted to kick in some extra dough (and how much) to make something nicer. Again, if you’ve got friends in the sales department, and they’re really good salespeople, they might be able to coax some production money out of the clients. In our case, most clients didn’t chip in for something extra, but I was surprised by the small number that did. In fact, we had one client who ended up shooting their spot on film! If you can get a few clients like this to start building a higher-end reel, your salespeople are going to be more excited about drumming up business and making sales calls. Sales people LOVE it when they can go to their client and show off a great looking spot. And some clients might just be willing to keep up with the Joneses when they see what the guy down the street got for his spot.

Another thing to consider it approaching your sales manager and pitching a commission on production costs for the salespeople. Since it seems like you have the clout to implement new ways of doing things, you might be able to convince the sales manager that you’re sitting on an un-monetized asset. You’re not looking to squeeze the folks that can’t afford it: they’ll still get their freebie spots. But there’s no reason that the folks that can afford it shouldn’t add to your bottom line. And if there’s something in it for them, I guarantee your sales force will push hard for the upsell.

Working at a place like this can be a grind, I know. People are resistant to change, so you might not get anywhere with any of these tactics. But if you can make the argument that this stuff will add to the bottom line, they’re worth a shot.

Good luck.

Mark Grossardt
Video Editor
Clark Creative Group

[Simon Roughan]

Thanks Mark, constuctive and productive advice.
Lots of your ideas have been tried already, a few not. I will definately be pushing for a updated reel with examples from both ends of the spectrum with associated costs spelled out.
Again, thanks alot.

[Malcolm Matusky]

Unless I’m missing something “whores” usually get paid! 🙂

Working for “free” is never a good way of doing business, unless you are independently wealthy and can afford to live for free as well.

There are some projects where I have not “charged” but I did not consider it working for “free.” I have done short promotional films for non-profits, but I keep the copyright, I stream the content from my website, My producer credits are at the head and tail, usually, and they may not be omitted from any venue I allow the “client” to display MY work.

I keep ownership, period, and allow the “client” to use it within very specific terms. No broadcast, unless the broadcaster is willing to run my credits, or pay.

I consider this work “advertising” for my business, advertising is an expense and I am willing to commit a certain amount of money and time to this, when people are asking you to do work for “free” and it does not promote your business, that’s when you are getting “screwed.”

M

Malcolm
http://www.malcolmproductions.com

[Mike Cohen]

Simon
Having read your original thread again after reading the diatribe that followed.
1. You work full time, receive a salary, and do the job set out in your job description (make ads as cheaply as possible because it is what you do in cable advertising).

2. Yet you are a creative person and you feel the need to work in a creative manner, even if that creativity is not in the scope of your directed work. Hey you have a soul, good for you.

3. The clients and the sales force who actually generate your salary do not appreciate nor acknowledge the extra creative effort.

Thus, what advice are you looking for?

If you want to do creative work that is appreciated by whomever is paying you, then you need to change careers. Grinner has the right idea – approach clients who are paying for crap and tell them you can give them something much better for a fair price. If they are insisting upon putting ads on local tv they might as well have something that does not look like a Monster Truck commercial.

Thinking of my local tv commercials – there are a few businesses in my state whose commercials everyone knows. Bob’s Discount Furniture – hokey but well made featuring the owner in various green screen compositions – he’s been doing these for 20+ years. Family Ford – the family of always cute kids does most of the talking. Cheaply made but gets the message across. Kaoud Oriental Rugs – cheaply made reminding me of the Ghostbusters commercials with Annie Potts.

All other local spots are in one eyeball out the other – forgettable and poorly made.

I’m afraid you might be in a Catch 22 – you want to be acknowledged for your good work by people who don’t care if your work is good or not. You could try convincing them that by making the spots better you are giving the clients better value. They may not pay for it, but the acknowledgement of your efforts seems to be what you are after.

Good luck – sounds like an existential problem.

Mike Cohen

[Simon Roughan]

Thanks for your answer Mike.
What I probably didn’t make absolutely clear, because unlike some posters here Im not too keen to splash around my firms name on this forum concerning a negative topic, is that when I say we are a “Cable” station, its probably not what you guys in the states know as “Cable”. We are officially known here as a Regional Station. We have 4,5 million people in our “Cable” zone, and on sattelite, the whole of continental europe. We have among our customers big international companys that you would all know. We have the local news window for a big national channel, and according to our (and their) research marketing we have approx. 400,000 viewers every night.

We dont produce crap. I have never, ever produced an ad for a local company with their kids in a speaking part. I use only professional actors from agencies, or local theaters. We are talking about a totally differant ball park. I do quite a lot of work in a producers role for our industry films, and sometimes when I have the time, NIFS and other stuff (weather pics etc) for the news. I do have quite a lot of clout here, and am known to the boss as one of his “better” workers. I love my job, no doubt about it. A lot of people in vid production would kill for it.

My problem was, and still is, how to deal with what I find to be a lazy sales team, who have slipped into a rut that they can make a quicker turnover, selling ads for air-time, with little or no production. I make a client something sexy with Cinema 4D say, and they take it to the next customer and say, “here we make this stuff for 999, including 2 weeks on air.” I say “hang on, you cant give this stuff away like that, it has lots of market worth”. They say “Well you didnt have to leave your office, the software is paid for, youre getting paid anyway, whats the problem?” And its true.
Mark suggested above getting the sales dept into the thinking of their provision for the cost of production. Believe me, Ive tried that. Anyone read that book “Freakonomics”? Its exactly like the example they give with real estate sales people. They wont work harder for the extra few thousand, cause for their provision, it means just peanuts.
I think what I really might have to do, is to negotiate with the boss to get in on the provision payment scheme on top of my salary. Then I wouldnt care so much anymore. Then I really could be a whore!

But seriously, my biggest concern is to the whole market; that we are killing it with this way of selling. We are cheapening the worth of the product. Grinner said above he loves to see shite ads on cable, cause he sees a potential client. Its actually the other way around. We are the ones winning clients. How do you guys feel about seeing shit-hot, kick arse ads on cable, and knowing they were produced for a dumped price that you as small business people could never, ever compete with? And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the whole thing in a nutshell.

I will request a meeting in the next couple of weeks with the big boss, and the sales manager, and talk this whole theme through.
But you know what the biggest hurdle for this whole thing is? Last year was the best revenue ever from sales of advertising. Even with the finance crisis etc etc. The bottom line is a bitch to argue with.
Believe you me, in a purely narcissistic way of looking at it, I’m doing great. My job is secure, Im doing what I love, but I cant help but think that there is something here fundamentally wrong. Perhaps if enough of you say “Dont worry, youre doing alright, just go with it” it would ease my mind a bit. But I just cant help thinking its wrong.

This is the last long rant from me on this topic. Thanks again to everyone for taking the time to discuss it.
Simon