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For all you employers out there
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[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] “Responding to that, I say that an employee can only have one full-time job. “
But we are talking about people doing other projects on the side, i.e. not a second full time job.
I keep asking this question but no one has responded to it yet, if the employee is meeting or exceeding the expectations of their employer what is the problem? If the employee is *not* meeting the expectations of their employer does it matter if the low performance is related to a stamp collecting hobby instead of side projects?
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[Andrew Kimery] “I keep asking this question but no one has responded to it yet, if the employee is meeting or exceeding the expectations of their employer what is the problem? If the employee is *not* meeting the expectations of their employer does it matter if the low performance is related to a stamp collecting hobby instead of side projects?”
That my friend, is up to the individual employer to answer. However, it is easier to dismiss someone who are having a paid job on the side, rather than a hobby, such as stamp collecting or even making videos.
There are no such thing as having a 100% job and working 125% 😉
All the Best
Mads@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
https://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk -
[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] ”
That my friend, is up to the individual employer to answer. However, it is easier to dismiss someone who are having a paid job on the side, rather than a hobby, such as stamp collecting or even making videos.”That begs to question…on what grounds to you have to dismiss the employee who has a part time job on the side? Small side gig that doesn’t interfere with their day job? That opens you to litigation…firing without good cause.
Again, if someone is performing their job well, isn’t tired, isn’t distracted…doing a good job…why does it matter WHAT they are doing outside of work? How does working a side job interfere? Is it fear that they might be poached away? Fear that they are somehow taking work away from you by working directly with a client, rather than that client hire them through your company? Fear of competition?
As stated, I do lots of side jobs. Mainly online and color work, while during the day I edit. I’m very loyal to the company that employs me full time as they pay well and keep me consistently busy. They treat me very well. But I still enjoy my side work. And I do it for clients that I’ve had working relationships with previously, who only use my services maybe 3 times a year, a week at a time. And the work isn’t in competition with my day job…my day job doesn’t involve online, they go elsewhere for that.
But what if I worked at McDonald’s at night? Or was a pizza delivery guy? Or club DJ? I put in a full day, did a good job, but had this side job…would you have grounds to fire me? Why?
What is it about the side gig that bothers you, specifically? Is it the fact that some people might perform the same services your company offers…say editing…but are doing it at a cheaper rate, therefore undercutting your company? There are many MANY clients who cannot afford to go directly to production companies for work…they hire freelancers at lower rates to cut from their home (low overhead), because they don’t have the budget to do it the regular way.
Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def -
Hey Shane,
I think you need to read my post again before getting your knickers twisted.
It is up to the individual employer as how they deal with out-of-work work by employees. As some employers in this thread have already mentioned, they won’t allow their employees to work for old clients (competitors).
About the legaleese: Depending on what country you are in, the laws are different. And HR departments are all over the world a real pain to deal with when it comes to the rights of employees and employers.
Bottom-line is, that if you are a new employee joining a firm in a full-time position, don’t automatically assume that you carry out paid work on the side. Likewise, if you are, as the original post suggested, an employer taking on a new full-time employee, don’t automatically assume that you need to let them keep all of their old side-jobs. As I’m sure you’ll agree, there are plenty of posts here opposing my black & white description of the proposition.
All the Best
Mads@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
https://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk -
[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] “That my friend, is up to the individual employer to answer. However, it is easier to dismiss someone who are having a paid job on the side, rather than a hobby, such as stamp collecting or even making videos.
So, all other things being equal, having an employee that meets or exceeds expectations but does non-competing side work is worse than having an employee that underperforms but does not do any side work?
[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] There are no such thing as having a 100% job and working 125% ;-)”
Sure there is. My employer gets 100% of my focus and attention when I’m on their dime. What happens outside of those work hours is my time and my life. 🙂
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You’re right…you weren’t being combative, but expressing the concerns that companies might have. I misread…pardon me.
I can see the point of editing projects on the side being in possible competition with the company one is working at…and that such work might undermine/undercut the company because that client isn’t hiring them…
Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def -
The larger issue is do you live to work, or work to live? When I was young, companies and workers still had something called the social contract: I give you my all, day in and day out, for years and years, and you give me a nice retirement at the end of 20 years. That all started going away in the 80’s and today, many would consider you a fool to expect any loyalty from an employer, and vice-versa, seems employers are in the news every day for pushing the boundaries of worker abuse, never mind the nice retirement. It used to be a source of shame that you job-hopped every 2-3 years, and now HR people look at a long-time spent at one company and wonder if you’re just a slacker without ambition.
The kids coming out of school today can expect to work in five different CAREERS in the course of their working lives. Not just jobs, but entire careers, with the attendant re-training.
The expectation that they would all act like devoted Japanese salarymen is alien to them.
My dad worked over 20 years for his best employer, paid off a mortgage and sent three kids thru school. Then he started on building his retirement nest egg. The next four companies he worked for, and these were big outfits, each kept him on-board just to within days of his being fully vested, then they’d dump him without benefits or any retirement or medical. He was the most senior guy on each staff, the expert in his field… but in HR terms, they didn’t want to keep him on and risk any liability for benefits. He had a stroke or heart attack one saturday morning at the last office, at his desk, working weekend overtime, and nobody found him for a couple hours. I consider myself a dedicated worker, but I don’t intend on going out that way. There are boundaries.
Work is not life, but you can, if you’re lucky, work at something that enhances and complements your life. I hit the jackpot in finding a job that is more like play than work, doing for pay what I would just as soon do just for fun. But my work is not my job. My job is to be a good husband and father. My work enables me to do that job. Whatever else I do on the side, I do to supplement the money made from work, or to satisfy some itch that the work doesn’t scratch. But the work does not define who I am. Some people live their whole lives and don’t ever get that.
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Great post as usual, Mark.
[Mark Suszko] ” It used to be a source of shame that you job-hopped every 2-3 years, and now HR people look at a long-time spent at one company and wonder if you’re just a slacker without ambition.”
That was one thing that I picked up on pretty quickly when I moved to LA is that if you stayed at one place too long people might start thinking you were damaged goods and that’s why no one else would hire you. The longest I’ve worked at one place is five years that was probably 2 years too long. I only lasted that long because of my side gigs. Ha. I really can’t see myself working more than a 2-3 years max at single place again which I guess is why freelancing seems to suit me better. Even an 8-12 month gig gives me a little trepidation that I’m painting myself into a corner.
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Hello. I think a high percentage of creative people have their own side gigs for various reasons. I know any employer would be worried on his staff having side gigs that may affect performance and fatigue from the staff. My work involves managing a team of graphic designers and screening new designer job applicants. Almost all of the designers I’ve worked with have their side/freelance jobs. Part of my responsibility is to ensure the design team completes the tasks on time and I sometimes have to deal with absences or tardiness. So I can understand the point of view of an employer or business owners. Some of my school mates are now employers and sometimes they talk about similar problems.
I also do my own side gigs for reasons of covering monthly expenses for my kids as nowadays, 2 jobs are needed to make ends meet. Second, the side gig is my backup in cases of unexpected job layoffs due to global economic slump. However, i avoid side gigs that directly compete with my employer’s line of business and I strictly do the side gigs at my home using my own resources. And I also note that my performance does not go down. My boss permits me to do side gigs using his computers and other resources but I always made it my practice to do the side gigs at my place. This is also to protect the confidentiality of the projects and files misplacement. Also, if my officemates see me doing the side gigs at the office, this may be a negative precedent. I think you can’t go wrong if you do things at the right place and time. 🙂
Graphic Designer Illustrator
https://www.spencersy.com/ -
[walter biscardi] “When you treat your people right, yes they absolutely will have that same loyalty.
Case in point, I had to leave my company abruptly to attend to a family emergency back home. During that time, a snowstorm hit Atlanta that shut down the city and my offices for two days. A project was due in Germany the following Monday evening.
“Walter, I absolutely and totally believe you treat your folks right.
But that’s tremendously easy with a shop of 5. Still easy with a shop of 25. A solid bit more difficult with a shop of 50 – and very, very, VERY much more difficult in a shop of 500.
And having witnessed first hand, small creative shops being sucked up into larger groups, I’m just telling you that the power is no longer in the small creative boutique class, it’s in the larger group class above that. That’s where this battle is playing out.
This discussion reminds me of Barak Obama’s first State of the Union address when he had as his guest, the factory owner who’s business burned down and who kept his employees ON THE PAYROLL for the nearly a year it took to re-build the factory. It was a huge story. Why? Because it’s a rare as hens teeth. That factory owner dipped into his own personal resources and spent millions to keep his people employed during a difficult time.
In the years since then, how many stories like that have you read? Do we think no other factories have burned down? No other companies have had huge layoffs when they found a way to cut labor costs by outsourcing or off-shoring?
That story was notable, because it’s astonishingly RARE for a company of any SIZE to show much loyalty to anything outside the bottom line. Just last month, a CEO got publicly pilloried by complaining about having to have their company insurance cover the costs of a couple of employees kids that needed life saving surgery. At a million bucks a kid I absolutely know paying that was a nasty business hit. But I’d bet that that the same 2 million bucks could have been easily covered many times over by removing a fraction of the executive stock options in play at that same company.
That’s the point. Not that there aren’t white hat business owners out there. There most certainly ARE. And I bet you’re one of them. As always, you guys should be celebrated. The problem is a CULTURE where in the executive suite, it’s become OK to bitch and scream about how you have to cut hours and make everyone part time to avoid paying their health insurance, while you’re driving one of your 20 cars to work.
There are plenty of issues surrounding “employee entitlement mentality” that need to be addressed.
I’m just arguing that there era equally PLENTY of issuers surrounding EMPLOYER entitlement mentality” as well.
Both sides would do well to look for improvement and self analysis to push toward increased fairness in the workplace.
FWIW>
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