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FCPX – Should we move to Premiere???
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[Erik Lindahl] “Some even remove your source media when clean out its cache! ;)”
Patient: Doctor, it hurts when I do that.
Doctor: Don’t do that!☺
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
A lot of GPU accelerated issues with basics such as transforms and crops can render sub-par quality.
You also have the default linear light mode which renders everything wrong. This can be manually disabled but it’s a hassle to remember. Then you have things you think might render the same in AE and PP but they won’t. Effects will appear different even with identical settings. There are also a ton of cache-related bugs where PP will “remember” precious states of media or effects. Rendering will also act differently with or with out GPU acceleration and can look different in realtime playback vs final render.
Also, as mentioned, anything dealing with rastering (vector to pixel graphics) will in general look like garbage in PP compared to AE or PS. Color transformations is also handled vastly different depending on the app you’re using.
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Isn’t it more like going to the hospital and the doctor just removes your organs with out asking…? 🙂
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[Erik Lindahl] “Also, as mentioned, anything dealing with rastering (vector to pixel graphics) will in general look like garbage in PP compared to AE or PS. Color transformations is also handled vastly different depending on the app you’re using.”
I guess I just haven’t run into that, however, most of the time I’m working with rasterized graphics in PPro. The only render issue I’ve run into is occasional corruption when using GPU acceleration on the 2013 Mac Pros. I have seen the situation where old states are sometimes held.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Erik Lindahl] ” Rendering will also act differently with or with out GPU acceleration and can look different in realtime playback vs final render.”
That part is true for me at certain times on the PC side with an Nvidia GPU. Did you make out a bug report? If I use CPU only it always looks correct for playback and rendering. I never had this problem until Adobe started supporting Open CL. PP CS 5.5 had no bugs.
[Erik Lindahl] “Also, as mentioned, anything dealing with rastering (vector to pixel graphics) will in general look like garbage in PP compared to AE or PS. Color transformations is also handled vastly different depending on the app you’re using.”
Did you file a bug report? I have not imported vectors from Illustrator since I have been on the Creative Cloud. It used to work great in CS 4.0 and CS 5.5.
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It’s true you can layout the Premeire GUI to your liking true but it still looks pretty poor compared to FCPX and Resolve. Sort of like it’s a mish-mash of 5 different apps. The GUI also suffers deeply from amnesia. In project A I want one layout, in project B a different one. It’s manual setup every time more or less (the project / bin setup windows primarily).
In terms of the Premiere graphics engine being sub-par really comes down to quality. After Effects gives better, more predictable results compared to Premiere hence I’m still forced jumping hoops between the apps. You can / have to work around it or live with lesser quality. Different plugins that do seemingly the same thing will render vastly different results. This can be true in any app of course, just point out “the grass isn’t always greener”.
For graphics and titles I always go Illustrator / Photoshop > After Effects > Premiere or just create them in AE. You can get around the quality issue by super sampling your graphics files in Illustrator but even then you loose all realtime in PP so the upside is a bit questionable (and techicanlly PP can still screw with the image). Also, if you have 10-20 text items the client wants new fonts and drop shadows for this is a pain to deal with in PP vs AE (2017 version might have changed that, I haven’t tested that version yet).
Premiere is also quite confused where some parameters are in % where others are in pixels.
I can post some screen-grabs tomorrow perhaps.
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Adobe is well aware (or should be) about my concerns yes. I frequently speak to a contact I have there + meet with them every year at IBC.
CPU renders seem reliable from my tests but this makes the application (PP) chocking slow for the most part. It’s also sometimes odd I can render say a 60s sequence in far less time than 60s yet realtime playback often stutters. In this regard FCPX is simply put insane (in a good way).
As with the fact Adobe uses something like 7 (or was it 17) different type-engines in their apps I’m not surprised things like vector-rasterizing differs between apps. It’s however frustrating one can’t assume “Adobe Creative Cloud” as “one” set of tools, each app has it’s own quirks. This includes simple things such as format / codec support.
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[Erik Lindahl] “The GUI also suffers deeply from amnesia. In project A I want one layout, in project B a different one. It’s manual setup every time more or less (the project / bin setup windows primarily).”
Could you expand on what you mean by this?
I have numerous custom layouts that I can call on across different projects, and I haven’t yet encountered “layout amnesia”. The deep customisability of the Premiere UI is one of its attractions.
Simon Ubsdell
tokyo productions
hawaiki -
[Erik Lindahl] “CPU renders seem reliable from my tests but this makes the application (PP) chocking slow for the most part. It’s also sometimes odd I can render say a 60s sequence in far less time than 60s yet realtime playback often stutters. In this regard FCPX is simply put insane (in a good way).
“I think it’s important to note that AE doesn’t use the GPU much at all, especially for rendering. Premiere does, but as an option (4 on a Mac). Not all GPU results are the same. For example, with RED raw files, there are visible differences between a software render/debayer and one using the RED Rocket card, which is a purpose-driven GPU. Not better or worse, just not the same.
However, an interesting comparison is type between Adobe apps and FCPX. I generally feel type in Adobe is crisper, although sometimes too crisp with some visible aliasing. Conversely the type in X is softer with smoother edges, therefore sometimes more pleasant.
[Erik Lindahl] “As with the fact Adobe uses something like 7 (or was it 17) different type-engines in their apps I’m not surprised things like vector-rasterizing differs between apps.”
In fairness, each of these apps have different development teams. What Adobe has been doing over the last few years is to unify their approach. Hence the fact that SpeedGrade guts ended up in Premiere and now type from Photoshop and audio elements from Audition. That’s why the AE team has been working hard to revamp AE to be more in line with Adobe’s other apps.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Oliver Peters] “I think it’s important to note that AE doesn’t use the GPU much at all, especially for rendering. Premiere does, but as an option (4 on a Mac). Not all GPU results are the same. For example, with RED raw files, there are visible differences between a software render/debayer and one using the RED Rocket card, which is a purpose-driven GPU. Not better or worse, just not the same.”
Could OS X have more problems than the Windows computers? Premiere Pro was rock solid when it only supported CUDA. Could Open CL be a problem?
[Oliver Peters] “SpeedGrade guts ended up in Premiere and now type from Photoshop and audio elements from Audition.”
Premiere Pro has always had the titling tools of Photoshop. The essential graphics panel left a lot of them out. I was told Adobe is aware of this and will add more features over time. I hope so.
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