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FCPX and skeuomorphism
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And a Canon 5d does NOT mark a card as a REEL.
Want to guess which of the three, Alexa, RED or 5D is being used more to generate video around the world today?
All I’m arguing is that in a world where it’s an everyday likelihood that a video clip MAY be created by a DSLR or an iPhone – as by a $25,000 plus camera – it’s fair to discuss what term is best to use to describe the digital data container.
Not sure why this is generating such angst.
It kinda reminds me of how people got so riled when X changed its fundamental terminology from Timeline into Storyline. It seemed very arbitrary at the time. But I’d argue that it actually helped many like me focus our thinking about what the construct in the software was. It’s wasn’t a line fixed in time any longer. It WAS lines of stories, primary and secondary, that elevated internal over external construction logic. And the change of term helped me come to understand that a bit easier.
Eventually, all the editor on the planet may come to call any original footage collection a “REEL.” and if so fine. But we may not as well. I’m fine with leaving it as an open question.
I also enjoy doing some exploring as to whether that particular term is the best one we can find for the largely virtual footage containers we use TODAY in the real world of file based workflows.
YMMV.
“Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions.”-Justice O’Connor
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[Oliver Peters] “I get what you are saying, but that’s hardly a database.”
Why not? It’s a collection of visual “tags” if you will that allow the user to search a collection of data (projects) and identify and separate that which we we need from that which we don’t.
Broadly that IS pretty much a database no?
I’m really just having some fun playing around with this thread. And I appreciate where you’re coming from, Oliver and we don’t actually disagree on this. And of course I completely agree that the Project Library is no where near a realized database like the one built into the Event Library in X.
Still, I hope perhaps my silly little description about alternate uses of the Project Library might let some without network level budgets think about ways they can use the tools in X to do some very useful things in ways that might not be obvious at first.
If my rambling accomplishes that, then I’m content.
“Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions.”-Justice O’Connor
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[Bill Davis] “And a Canon 5d does NOT mark a card as a REEL.”
If you’re going to use that argument, why not go straight to the bottom and talk about iPhones and other cell phone cameras or GoPros? 😉
I’m sure more video is generated by those than 5Ds. I’ve been cutting 5D stuff since right after “Reverie” hit the world. I can assure you that left unaltered, the 5D files are useless outside of FCP X or within a single application. No TC, so every clip starts at 0. I have a very specific routine and that involves embedding TC and Reel ID just so I can use these files across a wide spectrum of applications and for years later. In fact, as I recall, X doesn’t even read the TC that the Mark III now embeds.
[Bill Davis] “Not sure why this is generating such angst. “
Because you’re the one arguing that it’s unimportant for Apple to care, while the rest of use are involved in workflows where it’s essential. We are arguing for an adherence to standards, while it doesn’t seem to matter in your workflows.
[Bill Davis] “It kinda reminds me of how people got so riled when X changed its fundamental terminology from Timeline into Storyline.”
Utterly stupid as well.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Bill Davis] “Broadly that IS pretty much a database no?”
Hmmm… I guess.
[Bill Davis] “And of course I completely agree that the Project Library is no where near a realized database like the one built into the Event Library in X”
I work routinely with actual databases like FC Server, so it makes it very tantalizing to think that X could turn into something like that. I just doubt that Apple will take it that far.
[Bill Davis] “If my rambling accomplishes that, then I’m content.”
OK. OK. I’ll settle down now 😉
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Bill Davis] “Not quite sure how exactly it’s being “stuck” on a thing one is actively arguing against the need for”
You keep associating it with a container or folder and rejecting it because you don’t care what container it originally was imported from. I don’t really care about the container either but do value it for grouping a camera-days worth of clips, enabling accurate communication, and for content ID along with TC. You can’t see past the physical container thing.
[Bill Davis] “I’m just asking that Apple not spend a world of effort building in an inflexible way to track a particular term that’s becoming less relevant over time.”
Again… Apple’s FCPX has the field, Apple’s QT format contains the data. I can’t imagine anything that would take less effort than to read the data and populate the field considering Apple created both.
John
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[Bill Davis] “And a Canon 5d does NOT mark a card as a REEL.”
Now’s it making sense… How can someone appreciate Reel if they don’t need TC from their camera.
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[Bill Davis] “And a Canon 5d does NOT mark a card as a REEL.”
Now’s it making sense… How can someone appreciate Reel if they don’t need TC from their camera
In FCP legend using Log & Transfer you get time of day translated to time code and the folder defaults to being reel so you can do an offline/online workflow even with a 5d. Indeed for many of us the thought of not having a path back to camera originals is untenable and that requires both code and reel.
Personally I am used to making the card folder the reel. Doing double system sound I make the sound folder identical to the camera plus an A for audio. So it dead easy to associate the sound folder to the picture folder via the reel name. This becomes critical for auto reconform with cameras that do timecode.
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[John Heagy] “Correct, so we use a metadata field currently included in all NLEs, is embedded in a great production format (ProRes QT), is immunue to filename/path changes, and passes thru the transcode process.
It’s called “Reel” !!!
Sorry Jeremy, that was a slow ball right over the plate and I couldn’t resist 😉
“I aim to please. 😉
I think we are both sating the same thing in that Reel is essential, and should be immune to filepath/filename changes. The way that I have been using it with P2 material has been working great. FCP7 tracks the footage and reconnects so much easier as the Global Clip ID points to a specific file, not just a nebulous folder. This means that file could be anywhere.
Your reel system sounds fantastic, and I am not saying that it’s nebulous.
I just need it to work differently for our needs as day and date lose meaning over time for our projects.
I think this gets in to a broader conversation about metadata. FCPX has great taxonomy type of metadata, but it lives in the FCPX environment. What I love about P2 is that the metadata travels with the footage itself. (I just wish they’d dive deeper in to the single chip camera market a little more quickly).
This means that as long as an NLE understands P2 metadata (and Panasonic has recommendations on how to do this) it will travel with the clips anywhere they go.
Jeremy
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[John Heagy] “Again… Apple’s FCPX has the field, Apple’s QT format contains the data. I can’t imagine anything that would take less effort than to read the data and populate the field considering Apple created both.”
I don’t understand it either. Even when using 7toX, “reel” is now put in the “notes” column.
This must mean the FCPXML isn’t quite ready for this type of transfer yet.
Or AVFoundation isn’t ready.
Or the world, the world just isn’t ready.
Something.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “This means that as long as an NLE understands P2 metadata (and Panasonic has recommendations on how to do this) it will travel with the clips anywhere they go.”
Yes, there needs to be an ID that travels with the file and identifies content whether it’s per clip or per group with unique TC.
So you only work with P2 files? If not, how do assign a Global ID to non P2 media? Does Adobe Media Encoder transcode to a P2 CONTENTS folder?
John
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