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FCPX and color correction tools
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[Michael Gissing] “It was just that using a mouse and trying to get speed and finesse with a mouse just isn’t possible compared to a grade panel like my Tangent and Resolves extra functionality.”
Great. Only that this thread has absolutely nothing to do with that. At no point did anyone mention a control panel nor make it any part of their argument, let alone say that a mouse trumps a control panel or the likes. So I’d say you’ve missed the point entirely.
[Tony West] “… or did I misunderstand you?”
I highly doubt it. Nor do I see how anyone could have understood anything else, whether it was intended or not.
– RK
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[Robin S. Kurz] “At no point did anyone mention a control panel nor make it any part of their argument, let alone say that a mouse trumps a control panel or the likes. “
You should read the entire thread. Control panels are discussed multiple times in regards to both speed and functionality.
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Michael Hancock
Editor -
OK Michael, just to be clear it was this line that set me off
“So what this argument boils down to is that many editors just don’t care about grading enough to want decent tools”
You see, that comes off like you believe you have a greater commitment to your craft then me. I can assure you that you couldn’t be wronger on that sentiment.
As a person that shoots for a living also, I’m looking at the entire process. I think most people would acknowledge that a greater challenge in grading comes from dealing with exposure not color. As you mentioned, trying to recover a person’s face that has been under exposed, a blown out window behind the talent, or a blown out sky.
Your ability to push the material is also effected more by the bitrate the footage was shot at then your software on the backend.
What I’m taking into account here is the leap in camera technology over the years and the skill of the DP’s with those incredible cameras. Camera manufactures are all touting “High Dynamic Range” for a reason. I work with people (myself included) who actually know how to use picture profiles in those cameras to the fullest extent and how to get great images out of these great cameras.
What gets to me at the back end looks amazing and what I’m doing is “tweaking up” and making subtle changes. Gone are the days when somebody comes in with their blue footage from a B & W VF.
The higher level of production you are working on, the higher level of skill from the cinematographer should equal a higher quality of footage that hits your edit bay. The less work you should have to do.
Your follow up post was more “civil”.
And for the record, I give people as much respect as they give me. No MORE or no LESS.
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[Tony West] “The higher level of production you are working on, the higher level of skill from the cinematographer should equal a higher quality of footage that hits your edit bay. The less work you should have to do”
I haven’t found that to be a given with the advent of reality TV and reality-like productions. I’m currently posting a series that was originally shot by an experienced reality TV production unit. 5-6 days in a location. 5-6 cameras including the drones (XDCAM, FS700, DJI). Plus, there was a pick-up shoot that was mainly Alexa. So lots of camera matching issues and making up for run & gun lighting.
I’ve done features where both A&B cams were RED, however, they couldn’t get a matched set of lenses. The difference in lens brands/types/vintages was quite noticeable, even though lighting was good.
I’m tending to find that I’m having to do more grading than I ever have had to do in the past.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters – oliverpeters.com
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[Michael Hancock] “Control panels are discussed multiple times”
Oh, right. A full two times according to my search. But even if it were more, a panel has zero relevance in terms of quality of a grade. Because I know PLENTY of people that have jumped on the new-panel-toy-train from BMD and others and you’d still be lucky to get a correct white-balance out of them, let alone an acceptable grade. So pretending or suggesting a PANEL is actually of any substantial relevance as far as the quality of any given grade is concerned, or if the Color Board is of any use (the actual topic) or “a decent tool”, is completely nonsensical…
At the same time no one suggested there wasn’t any room for improvement either. Just as there is with Resolve et al. But also funny how suddenly he usual “The tool doesn’t matter!!” cries can’t be heard this time around either… always interesting how that works. ????
– RK
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When AI solves color correction and even more so grading I think editors will be just as redundant.
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I’d love to see more powerful color tools in FCPX. The engine driving the system is certainly powerful enough.
The things lacking from the top of my head would be:
– Curves (RGBL, Hue vs Hue, Hue vs Sat, Hue vs Lum, Lum vs Sat, Sat vs Sat)
– Matte Keyer per color operation
– Intelligent Tracking per shape matte (not backed in data as Adobe does it)
– Stills reference gallery (i.e. see previous / next shot or the ability to store stills – even FCP7 could do that)You sort of already have a lift / gamma / gain system in place, just visually different. That said they probably should have a lift / gamma / gain mode as well as their boards. Perhaps call this the advanced color panel or something. A bonus would be panel support or at least an API for panels.
Finess tools like sharpness, midtone detail, noise reduction etc are also part of grading / finishing.
Now if we’ll see this… I won’t hold my breath. I’d be happy with decent A/V playback first which would be required for a solid grade solution.
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[Tony West]”You see, that comes off like you believe you have a greater commitment to your craft then me. I can assure you that you couldn’t be wronger on that sentiment.”
The comment was not aimed at anyone specifically but to the general opinion expressed by many that X’s grade board is fine for what they do and they see no reason for Apple to improve or add further grade tools. Or leave it to third parties, hence my comment that for the same base price now, Resolve is offering a far more advanced grade tool.
So given you are committed to the craft of grading, do you only use the built in board or rely on third party tools to get a result?
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[Robin S. Kurz] “So pretending or suggesting a PANEL is actually of any substantial relevance as far as the quality of any given grade is concerned, or if the Color Board is of any use (the actual topic) or “a decent tool”, is completely nonsensical…”
You really do need to read posts and threads before commenting Robin. So angry and so wrong so often.
Others have commented on the granular nature of the board but my comments that finesse and efficiency with a mouse compared to a control panel make a difference to the ability to get a decent grade remain valid. Is it relevant to talk about control panels when debating how good an NLE is at a task like grading? Obviously yes.
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[Michael Gissing] “Others have commented on the granular nature of the board but my comments that finesse and efficiency with a mouse compared to a control panel make a difference to the ability to get a decent grade remain valid. Is it relevant to talk about control panels when debating how good an NLE is at a task like grading? Obviously yes.”
I agree. I also want to add that touch screens can be useful as well. I am not saying every aspect of graphic design or every aspect of audio or video editing would benefit from touch screen but it is good to have the option.
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