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FCP X Reels
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[Chris Kenny] “Third party software already could (and did) read the standard QuickTime metadata field, though, so this isn’t really an explanation for why Apple decided to go this way.”
That’s easy, bud.
Quicktime is not the future.
Arri won’t rely it on it forever, as they already have at least two other recording formats.
With a unified metadata system, every single one of their file, be it DNxHD, Arri Raw, ProRes.mov will have the same metadata. Since all of those different formats have different fields, it is best to have their own fields, at least, it’s best for Arri.
Now, apply that across every current and as yet to be developed container, codec, format, etc.
If camera manufacturers have their own metadata or formats, it’s best if NLEs can read that data rather than try and force translate in to some other convention.
At some point, a user could map metadata to other fields, but then what if that container doesn’t support that field?
Jeremy
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[Oliver Peters] “Could be that the your files weren’t a direct copy. Maybe handled through some on-set software or Resolve to add a LUT.”
It was me that did the transfers, and it was Shotput Pro. Everything seems to be in place.
[Oliver Peters] “I see a list, a filmstrip and a viewer. The Import module functions differ depending on if it’s a file on a hard drive, a camera card or a mounted volume (disc image from card) or a camera archive. If it thinks it’s from a camera device/volume, you can import range selections – like FCP7 L&T – except multiple ranged. If it’s from a hard drive, you have to import the whole clip.”
Got ya. I never import straight form a card/image so maybe that’s why it’s different. If you look here at the first few grabs in this article, my import window doesn’t look like that. That is coming off of a direct attach camera, though:
https://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/fcp_x_first_look_06_martin.html
Thanks for verifying that.
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[Shane Ross] “Green Screen isn’t part of the main realm of the NLE. Editing is. And apps that ignore the basics of editing…reel numbers…capturing from a still industry standard format (even though it is fading, there is no argument there)…exporting files to other aspects of post production (audio, color grading machine). Those were all features of FCP. Gone in FCX.”
But what if Green Screen is part of your realm?
OK, let’s say it’s not green screen, lets say is a smash blur transition, or some other transition that your NLE doesn’t have.
Do you complain to Avid to add it, or do you go buy a transition filter that will get the job done?
For some, EDLs aren’t part of an editing realm.
[Shane Ross] “But, I do know that that isn’t the market for the new FCX. We aren’t the market…so why do I keep hoping they will support our needs? Apple is aiming at a broader, more profitable market. I can’t blame them. So I see where they are going. It isn’t where I am.”
I see it differently. I know that FCPX isn’t for everyone, or that you might not like the way the software works, that’s all good, but with later releases, especially this latest release, there’s a lot more infrastructure that is targeted directly at high end professionals.
Jeremy
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[Jeremy Garchow] “That’s easy, bud.
Quicktime is not the future.
Arri won’t rely it on it forever, as they already have at least two other recording formats.”
This still doesn’t make a case for what Apple is doing. You can’t meaningfully ‘standardize’ a metadata field across two different container formats, because metadata is stored in different ways in different container formats. In other words, an NLE that wants to read reel metadata out of an MXF file needs to do that using different code than it uses to read a reel out of an MOV file, or an R3D file, or whatever. This is equally true regardless of whether the ‘reel’ data in question is stored in a camera-specific field or is stored in a generic ‘reel’ field provided by the container format.
[Jeremy Garchow] ”
If camera manufacturers have their own metadata or formats, it’s best if NLEs can read that data rather than try and force translate in to some other convention.”I agree that had Arri used a custom metadata field for reel information in MOV files generated by the Alexa, Apple should have written code to import that (but probably they should have written code to map it to the primary ‘reel’ field, not a field with another name that won’t be present for clips from any other camera). But that’s not what happened here. In this case, the Alexa was writing this data to a standard field. Why would Apple not just read that?
Think about a project that uses a mix of Alexa and R3D footage, as well as some VFX shots that have been rendered to ProRes and dropped into the timeline. In FCP 7, all of these things have reel metadata in the same field (or can have it added, in the case of the VFX shots which might not come it with it — and the added data is embedded in the QT file, so it’s readable by other apps). In the case of FCP X, the R3D clips will have reel metadata in one field, the Alexa clips will have it in another, and while you can attach reel metadata to your ProRes VFX clips in FCP X, it won’t embed that data in those media files, so it’ll be useless for conforming with those clips in other apps.
There must be some logic behind Apple’s approach, since it seems like they’re actively going out of their way to do things thing way, but I can’t for the life of me understand what it is.
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Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.
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[Jeremy Garchow] ”
OK, let’s say it’s not green screen, lets say is a smash blur transition, or some other transition that your NLE doesn’t have.Do you complain to Avid to add it, or do you go buy a transition filter that will get the job done?”
Smash Blur isn’t basic editing. Cutting, dissolving, that’s basic editing. All NLE’s have that. Tape capture, tapeless capture. Basic importing of footage so that you CAN edit…that’s a basic editing function. To leave one out, that is still in use…albiet by us 2%ers…is odd. But, as I said, they don’t market to us anymore…don’t look to our needs. They look to the needs of the masses, because that is where the money is. But, I guess the masses need an NLE too. One that they can afford.
[Jeremy Garchow] ”
For some, EDLs aren’t part of an editing realm.”I know…but it still is a part, silly as it is. But again, not part of the realm that Apple targets to any more. And again, something it USED TO DO…that is still in use, but it no longer cares to support.
[Jeremy Garchow] “I see it differently. I know that FCPX isn’t for everyone, or that you might not like the way the software works, that’s all good, but with later releases, especially this latest release, there’s a lot more infrastructure that is targeted directly at high end professionals.”
All I’m saying is that FCP used to do this, and now it doesn’t. Because only a small few used those features, and it wasn’t a good use or resources to make those features for those few…so ditch it. Aim for those vast number of editing professionals that have other needs.
As I said…”whatever.” I should stop loitering about here because the app isn’t aimed at my area of production anymore. People keep saying “Keep your eye on FCX…soon it will!” Sorry, I don’t see that. Even with the latest update…it still isn’t a tool that does what i need, offer me ways to deliver what I need to deliver.
Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def -
[Jeremy Garchow] “my import window doesn’t look like that. That is coming off of a direct attach camera”
It should look like this if coming from a hard drive.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Shane Ross] “But, I do know that that isn’t the market for the new FCX. We aren’t the market…”
Honestly, who is the market? This was set up early on as a bizarre ‘consumers’ vs. ‘pros’ dichotomy, but that’s obvious nonsense; consumers don’t buy $300 NLE software and FCP X has (and even in its first release had) tons of features that would be utterly useless to actual ‘consumers’.
People are interpreting every instance of “Apple does this differently for reasons I don’t understand” and “Apple hasn’t implemented this one particular thing yet” as evidence of “Apple isn’t interested in users like me”. As I noted many months ago, I could lay out an extensive argument for how FCP 7 doesn’t cater to higher end workflows and FCP X does. It’s just a matter of focusing on a different set of capabilities. Some people coming from FCP 7 simply take its limitations for granted, while at the same time being hyperaware of the things FCP X doesn’t have, which creates an extremely skewed picture compared with looking at the overall feature sets of the apps.
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Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.
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[Chris Kenny] “This still doesn’t make a case for what Apple is doing. You can’t meaningfully ‘standardize’ a metadata field across two different container formats, because metadata is stored in different ways in different container formats. In other words, an NLE that wants to read reel metadata out of an MXF file needs to do that using different code than it uses to read a reel out of an MOV file, or an R3D file, or whatever. This is equally true regardless of whether the ‘reel’ data in question is stored in a camera-specific field or is stored in a generic ‘reel’ field provided by the container format.”
Yes, and that is exactly what Apple is doing. Reading metadata from other camera manufactures and putting their fields in to the software.
There are still user defined fields that allow you to select a group of clips and assign what you want.
I am sure with the new v1.2 xml, media asset systems will allow metadata mapping.
There are no standards, Apple is embracing it.
[Chris Kenny] “I agree that had Arri used a custom metadata field for reel information in MOV files generated by the Alexa, Apple should have written code to import that (but probably they should have written code to map it to the primary ‘reel’ field, not a field with another name that won’t be present for clips from any other camera). But that’s not what happened here. In this case, the Alexa was writing this data to a standard field. Why would Apple not just read that?”
Apple is reading the XML that Arri provides. What’s wrong with that? Does DNXHD have a “reel” field? Is it in the same place as a QT movie? How about Arri Raw files? Reel field? Why not just read the XML that applies to all of the footage in the same way form the same camera regardless of recording format?
[Chris Kenny] “Think about a project that uses a mix of Alexa and R3D footage, as well as some VFX shots that have been rendered to ProRes and dropped into the timeline. In FCP 7, all of these things have reel metadata in the same field (or can have it added, in the case of the VFX shots which might not come it with it — and the added data is embedded in the QT file, so it’s readable by other apps). In the case of FCP X, the R3D clips will have reel metadata in one field, the Alexa clips will have it in another, and while you can attach reel metadata to your ProRes VFX clips in FCP X, it won’t embed that data in those media files, so it’ll be useless for conforming with those clips in other apps.
There must be some logic behind Apple’s approach, since it seems like they’re actively going out of their way to do things thing way, but I can’t for the life of me understand what it is.”
You can export XMLs with custom metadata fields now in FCPXML. Camera manufacturers go out of their way to make things different for everyone. Why is it Apple’s responsibility to combine all of that mess from now and in to the future?
Why not give the capability to read whatever the camera manufacturer suggests and export it back out?
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Thanks, Oliver. That’s how it looks here. I have not seen the Ken Stone window, that’s why I asked.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “Apple is reading the XML that Arri provides. What’s wrong with that?”
Actually no. This metadata is also embedded into the QT movie as part of a hidden metadata track. In my examples, FCP X is reading directly from the files. No XML involved.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com
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