FCP HDV master black level problem

[Randy]

Gary,

Thanks for this information. I assume they are taking HDV footage into FCP as DVCProHD as opposed to capturing as native HDV then exporting as DVCProHD. This is very helpful to know. I may recapture my HDV footage and try compressing out in that format to see if I get an acceptable DVD movie. Thank you!
Randy

[David Roth weiss]

Gary,

I have read many of your posts on this and other forums over time, and I respect your knowledge and experience, however, in this case your rather snooty response is not appreciated, and certainly not in keeping with appropriate Cow leader behavior, especially since you are simply not correct this time.

[gary adcock] “and for the record the D5 is not an HD format, it is a post tape format”

The D5 format you’re referring to is a rather ancient (2 years dead) SD digital format from Panasonic, which was their attempt to compete with Sony’s DigiBeta format. It was actually a terrific digital tape format, adopted BTW by Fox TV as their major acquisition, editing, and broadcast format. But alas, that D5 format was not otherwise widely accepted, and so it died. Meanwhile, Panasonic developed D5 HD, the format I referred to in my response to Randy, which you evidently know nothing about. I suggest you check it out at http://www.digdif.com/HD_decks.html#Panasonic_AJHD_3700 before admonishing anyone else. As I stated, it is Panasonic’s flavor of true or so-called “uncompressed” HD, which differs greatly from their DVCPROHD, which is a wonderful, yet highly compressed, HD format.

[gary adcock] “Funny, the workflow the largest number of people are using for HDV content is to convert it to 1080|60 DVCPROHD, so that they can get true I-frame available edits and at a data rate not much larger (between 10-20%) than the Native FW based HDV content.”

In addition, you also apparently failed to read and gather the gist of this thread, which is not about editing in native vs. i-frame format. Instead, it concerns mastering back to HDV tape, which Randy and others have found to be problematic. So, I recommended that he master to tape from his finished cut in FCP to an uncompresssed HD tape format. I could have suggested that he master to DVCPro HD, but it is not nearly as good for mastering on tape as are the so-called uncompressed HD formats. While the the editing workflow you mentioned is a very valid workflow, and the workflow I recommend to almost all working in the HDV format on FCP, it isn’t germaine to Randy’s situation, as he’s already finalized his edit in native HDV and simply wants to output to tape.

I hope this clarifies things for you, and that before correcting my posts in the future you will take a closer look and think more carefully about what I have to offer. With all due respect, while you are often a good source of information, as someone who’s been around the block a few times myself, I suggest that from time to time you might be able learn a few things from me.

All the best,
David

[Gary Adcock]

DRW – the D5 deck in my world accepts HD content, but is not considered a HD format, the 3700 deck can handle all formats universally and it is traditionally only used in Post. I do not know anyone that calls D5 anything but D5 due the the variety of content that it will record on the $500 per piece tape stock. Outside of NY, Toronto and LA D5 decks are only in post houses and some facilities, they are expensive to rent, and in anywhere but those cities almost impossible to get your hands on one.
So please be careful offering a solution to someone that is limited in scope outside of your market. We get posters from all over the world and of every skill level. Sometimes I use my replies to keep the solutions to a more universal outlook.

On compressed vs UC editing of HDV content, in my experience not a lot of HDV users even know what a D5 is and would not work in the uncompressed 1080|60 due to the huge additional costs of hardware for storage and software needed. You would have to agree that most HDV users (or at least most of the ones on these forums) are at the very beginning stages of trying to work in what is really a quasi -consumer product – many even do not see the need for anything other than FW storage for their productions. While I do not work in that way, we still need to help them.

I do agree that “Mastering” to HDV tape is fairly futile, given the inherent problems with the system. I have to deal with HDV camera content regularly, that does not mean that I have to work in HDV, but for many here, they are looking to work in this format and they are listening to Apple and Sony tell them that this is the best thing since sliced bread. Too bad that bread is getting stale while they wait for the really bad render back to HDV. But most of them cannot afford the D5 “cake” even if they live in a place that has them available for rent.

Lastly – it was not my intention to offend you, however I stand by what I said. even if I could have phrased it better.

Gary Adcock
Studio37
HD and Film Consultation
Chicago, IL USA

[David Roth weiss]

[gary adcock] “On compressed vs UC editing of HDV content, in my experience not a lot of HDV users even know what a D5 is and would not work in the uncompressed 1080|60 due to the huge additional costs of hardware for storage and software needed. You would have to agree that most HDV users (or at least most of the ones on these forums) are at the very beginning stages of trying to work in what is really a quasi -consumer product – many even do not see the need for anything other than FW storage for their productions.”

Gary,

As I stated in my previous message, this thread was specifically about mastering to tape, not about editing digital files and storage requirements on hard drives. However, in reviewing Randy’s question, when he asked, “If I wanted to output to a hard drive to take somewhere else for output what format/compression/etc. would be best to output to?,” he shifted gears, as people here are want to do on occasion. I assumed that he wanted to know the best tape formats for output, meanwhile, you saw it as a question about outputting (“converting”) to a digital file format on hard drive. Both are logical conclusions given the context of the thread.

Also, I have no clue where Randy is based — his profile only states “USA.” I specifically asked him where he was located, and for all I know, he could be right around the corner here in L.A. If so, I could easily have directed him to a facility within one mile from my house where he could have output to his choice of HD tape formats.

In any case, it is abundantly clear that both of us have been at this a while, and we are both well-versed in the realm of professional video. I trust that we can both proceed from here on a basis of mutual respect and as “peers.”

Ciao,
DRW

[Gabrielle]

I’ve been doing this for awhile now.

You MUST first create a Quicktime file of your HDV sequence. Then, create a new project and choose the DV NTSC Set up. Drag your Quicktime file into the timeline. THEN select DeInterlace Filter and apply it to the entire Quicktime. Then render (it will take about 10-11 hours roughly depending on how long your project is…the 10 hours is for a 90 min movie). When it’s done rendering, you can output it to DVCAM with no problems.

The reason you must create the quicktime file instead of just copying your HDV sequence into the SD DV is because you will find that anything you’ve applied a motion zoom to will be wrong and will need to be fixed before you can output to tape. That’s a lot of work and you might miss some and you will end up without the letterboxing on those clips. Creating the quicktime assures it is all the same size and allows for the letterboxing.

I’ll take that steak dinner now…

[Randy]

Thanks for the detailed process Gabrielle. I wish I’d had it yesterday as the show went out then. I will give this a try next week and let you know about the steak dinner. 🙂

[Arwa Merchant]

Hello all
I have been reading and following all the threads related to HDV worflow. I am in Dubai, United Arab Emirates. I am working on an hour long documentray shot completely on HDV using the Sony camera. I have about 22 hours of footage, which I will be looking at tomorrow.
I wanted some suggestions on my workflow. I am working with FCP 5, a G5 dual processor, 2GB, no capture card, but can get one if needed.
I have been deciding to edit native HDV, capture all the footage via firewire onto 500GB FW800 drives. But it seems like almost everyone prefers converting the HDV footage to an i-frame format. but what’s the point of having the native codec, if you are going to convert everything.
Secondly, considering the amount of footage I have, i can’t convert it to a 10-bit uncompressed format. It would take way too much time.
My next option is to downconvert my HDV footage during capture to DV-PAL. Am I going to lose a lot of picture quality? What are the cons if I stay native?
My master has to be a digibeta PAL.
Please advise me on my workflow. I don’t have a capture card, but I can get one if it is essential to my edit nd the final output.
Thank You.