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“Fair” Compensation
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Ah. See, I totally understand your points.
2 things caught my attention:
*”full day XDCAM camera op, lights and sound operator”
*”Even $500 for a full day shoot is a steal.”My situation: Take my DSLR w/ external mic to lady’s house (nat light), talk for 20min, cut it up and add pre-made motion graphics at a nearby cafe.
It seems implied that the cam op, (nat) light and sound is an all-in-one deal, and these shoots are hardly “full day” … I dunno, I guess I’m at a crossroads between working for a company that just wants to crank out content (with not much regard for quality) and getting my portfolio built up.
Keep in mind
-I already work for this company as a writer.
-I need to make rent!Aggggh!
“A song is an excuse to go to a chorus, and a chorus is an excuse to go to a breakdown.”
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David, like the others have said, my opinion is that you’re making a serious and irreversible mistake by working for that amount. I’ll try to explain why, in addition to the reasons others have touched on already …
I understand your inexperienced rationale that each job is only 2 hrs to shoot and 2 hrs to edit and $100 divided by 4 hours is $25/hr … you’ll be rich soon! Before even getting to the main points, I’ll mention that you should stick with the 4 hours since, you might be able to shave time based on 1-2 such jobs, but consider if you end up doing 10 a day at 1 hour each … running to and from your car to the shoot location with bags of gear on your back gets really old after the first few hours each day … nevermind the second day.
Even more importantly, you’re giving your client for free things that you have to pay for whether you realize it or not, which will eventually have you living under a bridge pushing a shopping cart while your former clients are sipping umbrella drinks on the beach at their summer homes in Florida. For example:
- the additional hour of your time to get to/from the client’s location
- the costs for gas and wear & tear on your car to do so
- the additional hour to set up and breakdown the gear before/after the camera is rolling
- your $1000-$2000 MacBook Pro
- all the expensive professional software needed to do the work
- your camera package … lights, tripod, monitor & everything else
- expendables like videotapes, batteries, DVDs, etc., etc.
- a portion of your electric bill to run all that spiffy computer and video gear
- a portion of your rent to house all that expensive gear
I could go on for days, but hopefully, you’ve started to get the idea. You really should read about what a Grinder is since you are obviously dealing with one: https://library.creativecow.net/articles/lindeboom_ron/clients_or_grinders.php
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Any chance we can see one of these $50 beauties? Would love to have a peekee weekee.
Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media Inc.
Video Production and Post
Owner/President/Editor/Designer/Animator
https://www.tiltmedia.com -
Ha! The “beauties” haven’t been shot yet – I’m still negotiating terms. I’ve proposed $50 per angle, so if I go out and shoot one 30min interview, I can cut it up into several angles and make $50 per piece. That seems fair to me.
“A song is an excuse to go to a chorus, and a chorus is an excuse to go to a breakdown.”
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It was fairly rough (1st time I’d shot with a DSLR and used internal mic, nat light) but I assume they’ll pay whatever we agree upon.
“A song is an excuse to go to a chorus, and a chorus is an excuse to go to a breakdown.”
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That’s a great article – thanks Dave!
“A song is an excuse to go to a chorus, and a chorus is an excuse to go to a breakdown.”
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Dave Johnson has hit the nail on the head.
You are way undercharging, even considering your experience.
You have to run the numbers, because in the end this is a business.
So if they can’t pay a fair amount, just don’t do it. There is no reason to do work for free, or break even. Or worse, work that is costing you money!
If someone else comes along that will do it for that amount, let’em have it! Once they see that the time, fuel, wear and tear on the gear is not worth it they are either going to charge more, or cut corners.
Or maybe the client will try and do it themselves, and then they will soon see why the job is worth paying more for.Scott Sheriff
Director
SST Digital Media
https://www.sstdigitalmedia.com -
I’m glad you found my input helpful, David. And, thanks much for the reaffirmation, Scott … I too believe very strongly that logical thinking spreads better when it comes from multiple sources.
David, One thing I have to add to when I said “you really should read about what a Grinder is since you are obviously dealing with one” … I’ll bet you a zillion dollars your Grinder knows all of the things I tried to point out in my first reply, yet will still deny them if you let him/her, which is what makes him/her a Grinder (a.k.a., a thief).
With that said, if you’re 16 and haven’t yet invested much in your training, skills or tools, maybe an argument can be made for jumping at any chance to make some quick cash. If you do take that route, just keep in mind that, if you do decide to become a professional later, defining yourself as the will-work-for-pizza guy early in your career means you’ll have to live with that for much, if not all, of your career … and, $100 for a few hours easy work doesn’t have quite the same appeal when you’re not 16 anymore.
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[David Burkart] “I want “fair” compensation”
How to figure out fair compensation
Take all your life expenses for one month and figure out how much money you need to make in 20-25 paid hours a week to meet those expenses. That’s what your survival needs are. Life expenses include food, housing, clothes, transportation, utilities, equipment maintenance, taxes, etc. You’ll need to think about saving for equipment purchases, health expenses, possible time off as well. As you get better you can raise your profit margin and increase investment in the growth of your business. All gear needs to be replaced eventually. All software updated. Sure as a recent grad your costs may be lower and that might be reflected in your price but you must meet your live and business expenses as a baseline.I use 20-25 hours as a target because, unless you’re on staff, you’re going to be spending a lot of hours doing unpaid work required for a business which ranges from marketing, equipment maintenance, learning new skills (software, gear, new techniques), bookkeeping, client interaction (sales, etc).
Getting portfolio work
You can do a project for a non profit for prominent credit. Not only will you be helping an organization that can’t afford your services, donors will see someone with a similar interest doing quality work and they (the donors who obviously have money) may become your clients.Word of mouth
Your reputation sets your precedent on quality and pricing. If you do good work for too little money, the referrals you get will expect similar rates. You’ve basically killed your business at that point because every job you take will put you deeper in the hole and good work will be an example of what potential clients expect for the next to nothing you’re charging. Thus, never work for a for profit business and under charge.What a project really takes
Keep in mind the preparation for a project takes time as well. This includes going to/from the locations. Discussions with the client beforehand. Possible changes in the edit. Meeting with the client to deliver files or uploading as needed.Compensation
Hourly
There are many ways to handle it. If the project variables change you could charge hourly although that may not be the case here.Daily
If it’s truly formulaic you could charge half day or day rate and everyone has an idea about your productivity. The danger with a per project rate is that unless there’s a contract, the projects specs may change over time or from project to project and then the 4 hour projects turn into 8 hour projects and you’ve accepted without locking down the limits to the project description. If you charge by the day then some days might be 2 projects and others might be 4 (or whatever) depending on the complexity but you know you’re getting paid for the day (8 or 10 hours but that should be agreed upon).Project
You could simply take it one project at a time if you know the specs in advance of each project and knowing your productive ability. Each project is locked down in description in advance and agreed to in writing. -
[Dave Johnson] “my opinion is that you’re making a serious and irreversible mistake by working for that amount. “
Not always irreversible.
After working for such a low rate, you’ll probably never be able to raise your rate for this client, ever. However, if it’s good showreel material, and if you don’t have much of a showreel yet, use this to land your next gig.
When I got started a few years ago as a college student, I did some very inexpensive work. A couple of those clients were legitimately sweet people with interesting things going on that I cared about — so working inexpensively for them was fun, low-drama work. A couple were good exposure and awful pay, but I don’t regret that work, because I’ve used that to find much better gigs.
If you don’t think that you can get more money out of this client, try negotiating for things that will make your job easier. Have the client line up 10 interviews back-to-back. Negotiate a long turnaround time (maybe two weeks), so that you can work on this in between other gigs (or finding other gigs).
Yes, you are getting ripped off. But some work is better than no work, if there’s no other work to be had right now. Do consider opportunity cost, though — if a better gig comes along, will you be able to dump this quickly to start on the other one?
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Meteor Tower Films
We make music videos, design video for live theater, and build interesting contraptions.
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