external audio monitoring

[Kim Rowley]

Got the message loud and clear. Thanks for the sound advice. (No pun intended : ) )

I already had singled out the Mackie 1402 mixer and perhaps the Behringer A500 amp… I promise to listen no more through the MAC!
Happy New Year to you all.
Kim

Dual 2.7 GHz G5, 4GB RAM, ATI Radeon 9650, Xserve RAID, AJA IO, 2 20″ Cinema Display, FCP 5.03, OS X10.4.3

[Kim Rowley]

I’ve been mulling everything over in my mind and am going to risk another potentially dumb question. I have never used a mixer in my editing experience – neither in AVID, M100. (Of course I did in the traditional online tape to tape suite). It’s not clear to me why I need a mixer at all. Isn’t it enough to go straight from my AJA XLR outputs to the amp?
We have a main machine room at the center of our facility and evey potential signal is routed through our patch bay (both video and audio). Same holds for the ins and outs of the AJA. As of this year I have a patch bay for all the 9 pin connectors too so there’s no more going behind the VTR’s to swap them. I just patch whatever I need whenever I need it. What advantages would a mixer give me in a setup like this?
Thanks for the patience! And since we’re nearing the 31st, Happy New Year!
kim

Dual 2.7 GHz G5, 4GB RAM, ATI Radeon 9650, Xserve RAID, AJA IO, 2 20″ Cinema Display, FCP 5.03, OS X10.4.3

[Frank Nolan]

Kim,
You dont NEED a mixer. You can go straight out of your AJA to your amp and then to speakers. However, the control you have to monitor different sources is limited. Also power amps should be run at full on the volume controls and then the level controlled from the source (normally a mixer). If all your equipment is routed through a patchbay, including the AJA, then you could get by without the mixer. After reading all the pros of having a mixer and it seems too complicated for you, just take your XLR outs from the AJA straight to the amp and be done with it. It just means repatching every time you want to monitor a different source.

[Bob Zelin]

Kim,
I know that there is no way for me to respond to this without insulting you. I have been in this business since 1978, when Quads were big, and 1″ VTR’s were just coming in. I have been thru 1″, Beta, Beta SP, D2, D1, D3, M2, M3, Digi Beta, Beta SX, DV, DVCPro, DV Cam, HD Cam, DVCProHD, and everything else. I have built over 1500 edit rooms, and have been in thousands of edit rooms all over NY and Florida. With the exception of cuts only news edit rooms at TV stations, I HAVE NEVER EVER SEEN AN EDIT ROOM without an audio mixer in it, with the exception of AVID systems or other NLE systems at dealer demo rooms or trade shows.

Now, let me discuss one basic issue with you. Lets say you have a Beta VTR and your AJA box. The AJA out goes into the Beta, and the Beta out goes into the AJA. What do you monitor – do you monitor the output of the AJA – – how? Do you build a “y” cord on the XLR outputs of the AJA to feed your amplifier? Or do you use the mono “monitor out” from the VTR to feed your speakers? You MUST have some ability to control the volume to your speakers. And if you have PEAK AUDIO from a Beta 1800, how will you adjust your levels? If you have low level audio, how will you adjust your levels? IF you have to get a VHS tape, or scratch microphone into your AJA, how will you do this?

Why is it emotionally hurting you to buy an $89 mixer if this will resolve all of your problems?

The simple answer to your question – cant you go right from the XLR outputs of the AJA IO into an amplifier – YES YOU CAN. This will work – as
long as you have easy access to the volume knobs on the front of the amplifier.

Years ago,when you worked in the traditional tape to tape linear room, why didn’t you just patch VTR 1 into VTR 2, and VTR 2 into an amplifier – and have no ability to adjust your levels? This is the same analogy.

Bob Zelin

[Kim Rowley]

Bob, I didn’t find your post insulting at all. (I will admit when I posted I did kind of hold my breath waiting for some wrath the come down the pipes.) At any rate thanks for your time. I follow eveything you (and the other posters have said). I can easily buy a mixer and it is not emotionally hurting me to so. I will happily change the way I work and input and output footage if I can do my job better.
Step by step here’s my current way of doing things.

We have a central machine room with 1 BetaSP deck and 2 digiBeta decks, plus VHS and UMatic for the odd archive material that comes up. I am not alone. More than one edit suite has access to all the decks as needed. As I said, all these are connected to a large patch bay. As are all the ins and outs of the AJA. I can feed whatever I want to FCP and adjust levels either before digitizing or during editing. If I want analogue Beta inputs I patch the outputs of the deck into the analogue inputs of the AJA.
Please note I have an amp and mixer in this machine room and hence can monitor the audio as I lay back to tape at jobs end. As I said in a previous post 99.9% of the time I lay to Digital Beta through the SDI connector (audio and video.) The Digideck’s analogue outputs are routed to the mixer and I monitor everything through the deck as I’m laying down to tape. If there are adjustments to be made I go back to FCP and fix it there.

The AJA is physically in my edit suite and not in the main machine room. It’s dedicated solely to my G5. It’s here where I have another amp that is fed the XLR analogue outputs of the AJA to monitor my audio during the editing process. And it’s here where I don’t see how the mixer fits in. Maybe it’s due to the fact that nearly all of my digizing is done with the Digibeta VTR and embedded SDI audio. Since the Digibeta VTR plays back also Beta SP, I almost never need to change anything. One SDI In/Out patch does it all. I realize that in another setup a mixer is indispensable and in fact I do have a mixer in the main machine room.

The Sony amp in my edit suite went on the blink after years of faithful service and had in fact a volume control. The new one I’m considering (Beringher A500) also has a volume control for each channel.
So, see, I’d gladly fork out the necessary money for a mixer. That’s not the point. If I can make it make sense I’m happy to change. We try to keep the signal at the highest possible quality all through the production chain and things have worked for years. I don’t have an attitude problem and so am open to other people’s experience. Hence the courage to overcome making a fool of myself in this revered community!
Thanks to you and the others that have taken the time to answer.

Dual 2.7 GHz G5, 4GB RAM, ATI Radeon 9650, Xserve RAID, AJA IO, 2 20″ Cinema Display, FCP 5.03, OS X10.4.3

[Bob Zelin]

You state –
We have a central machine room with 1 BetaSP deck and 2 digiBeta decks, plus VHS and UMatic for the odd archive material that comes up.

REPLY – the VHS and possibly the UMatic (depending on what model) will need to be amplified to +4dBu to get a decent level in AJA (or any other pro edit product). Sure, you can do this with the mixer in your machine room (or with a line amplifier) – but WHY ?

You state –
The AJA is physically in my edit suite and not in the main machine room. It’s dedicated solely to my G5. It’s here where I have another amp that is fed the XLR analogue outputs of the AJA to monitor my audio during the editing process. And it’s here where I don’t see how the mixer fits in. Maybe it’s due to the fact that nearly all of my digizing is done with the Digibeta VTR and embedded SDI audio. Since the Digibeta VTR plays back also Beta SP, I almost never need to change anything. One SDI In/Out patch does it all.

REPLY – in this case above, you are correct. You are using the Dig Beta with embedded audio to get all Beta and Digi Beta material in and out of the
AJA. In this ONE EXAMPLE, all you need is an audio monitor off the back of the AJA IO. If this is all you are doing, then you are correct – this is all you need (an amplifier with knobs).

You state –

The Sony amp in my edit suite went on the blink after years of faithful service and had in fact a volume control. The new one I’m considering (Beringher A500) also has a volume control for each channel.
So, see, I’d gladly fork out the necessary money for a mixer. That’s not the point. If I can make it make sense I’m happy to change. We try to keep the signal at the highest possible quality all through the production chain and things have worked for years. I don’t have an attitude problem and so am open to other people’s experience. Hence the courage to overcome making a fool of myself in this revered community!

REPLY – The Behringer A500 is teriffic, as would an Alesis, Samson, or countless other inexpensive amplifiers. Never be afraid to ask “stupid
questions”, as no one makes a fool of themselves more than I do.

Bob Zelin