EX1 Firewire Question

[Stephen May]

Aaron, how did it go for you? Did you get a solution to your post?

Stephen May
Keystone Media Productions
Freelance Videographer

[Craig Seeman]

[Michael Slowe] “I just want to be able to show my films”
Why use DV for that? Better to go straight to DVD with a high quality source. Also a High Quality file on a laptop to a projector can yield better results. DV is simply the worst possible choice unless the only playback option is a DV deck.

[Craig Seeman]

[Stephen May] “As for DVCAM tape, here’s the thing: If you’re going to show your playback on a CRT which is interlaced, then trust me, it will look very good. Seriously.”
DVCPro50 or DigiBeta will be better. File from Laptop to screen will be better. DV is just about worse possible choice and it’s only use is if the only means of playback is DV deck.

[Stephen May] “I’m dumbfounded by the issues of HD flatpanels and their finite resolutions constricted by the pixels that struggle to present ratios and formats that do not exaclty match the resolution of the panel. Circles that looked smashed or systems that fill the panel at the cost of the truth of the ratio instead of letterboxing or whatever. It’s as though we’re being force-feed the flat panel, and for that matter, HD as well. Granted, I love the EX1 and I can vouch for the great quality of the high res after it’s been downconverted, but what workload to always be converting everything down in a world where Blu-Ray isn’t in everyones home or office. “

The issue is NOT the flatpanels it’s the people who don’t understand video. If you have HDTV then it’s very easy to give it an HD source. Looks great (given proper setup). HD to HDTV requires very little work.

Heck I use DVI to HDMI to send from my computer to my HDTV. I can play the EX MOV file and don’t need to do any conversion at all. It’s what I do for client presentations in my office. Granted it’s not an ideal color correction/accuracy but it there’s NO REASON to mash your file at all. You can do the same thing with a laptop if you must be portable.

[Stephen May] “I watched a DVD (regular old DVD, Standard Def) of a John Mayer concert; Into The Light – fantastic set of the JMT with Pino Palladino, and it looke so good that I had to check out the workflow! Guess what? It was shot on film and converted.”
And I’ll bet anything it NEVER went to DV first as a source.

Start with the highest quality and use the most direct route. Avoid more than one lousy compression. Compressing an already compressed file is potential for serious degradation.

[Stephen May]

Craig,

I agree – DigiBeta, DVCPro50, both look amazing, way better than DVCAM – no dispute however, both those format should look stunning for the cost of the format! My point, poorly delivered, is simply that standard def on a CRT can look very good, and by and far, many clients do not have an HD sources feeding HDTV. You’re right about the JM DVD; of course it didn’t go to DVCAM – in fact it was probably converted to HD, but delivered to the public in SD DVD.

If I’m your client, and you play back the final edit from your mac to your HDTV, I’m sure it looks fantastic. Then after you have satisfied your client with the final edit, you must deliver the edit. If (and it would be nice to get a sense of how many times this is the case)your client doesn’t have HD playback, two things are next:
1. You must compress the final product to some form of SD.
2. They will see it again, and it won’t look as amazing.

What percent (roughly) do you end up delivering in SD versus the clients that you can deliver to in HD?

Stephen May
Keystone Media Productions
Freelance Videographer

[Craig Seeman]

[Stephen May] “Then after you have satisfied your client with the final edit, you must deliver the edit. If (and it would be nice to get a sense of how many times this is the case)your client doesn’t have HD playback, two things are next:
1. You must compress the final product to some form of SD.
2. They will see it again, and it won’t look as amazing. “

And to do that DV does not enter into the picture. If I downrez I’m going to AppleProRes (or 8 bit uncompressed for those who don’t have the codec) as my intermediary. One can go straight from HD to SD DVD encode too.

Going from HD 35mbps VBR MPEG-2 Long GOP 4:2:0 to DV 25mbps CBR 4:1:1 to MPEG-2 Long GOP 4:2:0 (Elementary Stream) is really running the source through a meat (or bit) grinder. UGH!

Again the ONLY reason I can think of to go to DV is if one MUST deliver on DV tape. DV is a bad choice for an intermediary as well as final destination.

[Stephen May] “What percent (roughly) do you end up delivering in SD versus the clients that you can deliver to in HD?”

These days I’m doing both for most clients. TV spots are SD delivery. Digital Signage is HD. Even the lowly “demo reel” clients can get 720p on YouTube or Vimeo. You can easily send those to an HDTV and play full screen. YouTube seems to be using H.264 with 2000kbps avg and 4000kbps peak data rate. While all my clients get SD, very few only get SD. Almost all of them are getting some HD version too.

BTW there are various plusses and minuses to Vimeo vs YouTube for HD delivery. Since it’s relevant to the discussion and can be FREE other than the encode I’ll mention this.

YouTube plays at the frame rate you upload too (big plus). Vimeo converts to 24p and does a poor job of it.
Vimeo allows you to turn off scaling when you play full screen which is good if you’re screen is bigger than 720p.
Vimeo has no 10 minute duration limit that YouTube has.
Vimeo can allow the user to download the uploaded file directly (usually a very high quality 720p file at around 5000kbps for me) so it’s great for delivering a good compressed version for the client to play directly on their desktop, etc.

I won’t claim any of that equals Blu-ray quality but the client doesn’t need to buy a player. They get 720p viewing and delivery of their HD projects and can distribute the link or download source to use as they choose. So nearly ALL my clients get HD (even if they primarily ask for SD DVD) and I don’t have to buy a burner and author disks. HD distribution is here now and free at least at 720p level.

I show this to ALL my clients. I can play the file to my HDTV and tell them “you can do this right now in your home (if you already have HDTV and Computer).” In fact they can play right from the internet to the HDTV with DVI to HDMI cable out of the computer.
Vimeo

[Michael Slowe]

“Straight to DVD from a high quality source” is what I do. From an HD timeline exported by reference as a .Mov into BitVice for encoding. But BitVice has to do a downscale since I can only make SD DVD’s at present. My point therefore was that DV tape is still better than the MPEG2 of a DVD. If I have to give someone a DVD so I have to since it is not practical to rely on playing everything through a laptop. There is no doubt that shooting at high quality on the EX1 has made a big difference in the end result whether it’s DVD or DV tape.

Michael Slowe

[Nick Righton]

BTW..The EX1 has a 4GB single file size limit. In HDV mode (SP if you will) You can only record about 17 minute in 4 gigs.

I wish I was good at one thing rather than average at many, but oh well.

[Rafael Amador]

[Nick Righton] “BTW..The EX1 has a 4GB single file size limit. In HDV mode (SP if you will) You can only record about 17 minute in 4 gigs.”
I’ve never used the EX-1 in SQ mode, but in HQ (35Mbps) you can record the 16GBs of the SxS card no stop. Guess with a 32GB card you can record 32GBs. I don’t know if the .mp4 is chopped in 4GBs files inside the memory.
Rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com

[Craig Seeman]

EX records in 4GB chunks and links the files together in metadata by the .smi files. XDCAM Transfer joins them together when creating .mov.