EX-1 shortcomings

[Joe Incardona]

Thanks, Ron, that was kind of you to acknowledge us for providing the comparison footage of the HPX-3000 and the EX-1. I really had wanted to shoot some test footage in the AVC Intra 100 codec, but the Panasonic rep wasn’t able to help us download the AVC Intra plug-in for Final Cut the day they were here in Memphis with the camera, so I had no way of getting AVC Intra footage into our NLE.

Just a couple days ago, the engineer from Panasonic who was here sent me a link to download the AVC Intra codec for FCP. I just haven’t had a chance to do anything with it yet. The Panasonic sales rep let me dump some AVC Intra test footage he had with him on to a hard drive in our office, so I may be able to post some AVC Intra test clips edited in FCP in the next week or so.

[John Ryan]

What about the HD-SDI? I was bummed out to find that no uncompressed HD signal out the HD-SDI port. The signal coming out is 60i after the mpeg. I had planed on using the Aja HDio to bring in 4.2.2 for keying, but no point in that as the card has true 24fps on it. I wonder if that can be fixed/changed with firmware?

I miss the old EX1 specs.

The bright side is after 30 days I have found 16gb media ($840) and batts ($240).

John

[Craig Seeman]

HD-SDI out of the EX1 is 10 bit (or 8 bit with 2 “dummy” bits) UNCOMPRESSED 4:2:2. That has nothing to do with MPEG2. 24fps would be embedded with pull down in a 29.97fps stream.
AFAIK 24fps is NOT part of the SDI spec.

[John Ryan]

You are correct Craig in that the signal is a 10 bit 4.2.2 UNCOMPRESSED SMPTE292M/259M HD video coming out the HD-SDI BNC. Unfortunately it is not from the head like the Canon or a F900R. It is a decompressed version of the 4.2.0 MPEG stream that is being recorded to the SxS. So there is no advantage to using something like the Aja ioHD to bring in a better signal.

So I’m afraid, correct me if I’m wrong, that the video coming out the SDI is one generation old already.

Like I said this was a bummer for me, I hope I am wrong, but the video we are getting from the HDio off the SDI BNC looks worse then the 35mbit from the SxS. BTW the 35mbit is pretty damn good, I’m not complaining about that.

John

[Craig Seeman]

John I don’t know where you’re getting your info but it is wrong. The HD-SDI output is coming from the head unless your are playing it off the cards. Off the head out of HD-SDI is untouched by MPEG2 and Sony stated as much when asked.

[Paul Crowe]

Interesting thread.

Okay so when you say “off the head” are you recording on the fly to a SDI capable recorder or something? Or playing it back off EX-1 via an SDI out, in post? Either way does this give you 4:2:2?

Cheers
John

[Craig Seeman]

If you take a Feed WHILE SHOOTING from the SDI port it will be 4:2:2 UNTOUCHED by MPEG2 compression.

Once it’s one the card, that is 4:2:0 and, at best, is being “up converted” to 4:2:2.

You want to record from SDI while shooting. No different than the few HDV cameras such as JVC and Canon that have SDI ports also.

[John Smith] “Okay so when you say “off the head” are you recording on the fly to a SDI capable recorder or something? Or playing it back off EX-1 via an SDI out, in post? Either way does this give you 4:2:2? “

[John Ryan]

Craig where are you getting your info? I can’t find anything that says it is from the head or block. If it is from the head before MPEG that is a HUGE benefit and should be used in sales material, it is not mentioned anywhere. In Oct at HD Expo the Sony guy with the EX1 told me that it was indeed off the head and truly 10bit 4.2.2 uncompressed. I believe he was wrong.

I am now certain the camera is only outputting the decompressed MPEG2 stream though the SDI port, here’s why.

I have digitized a live feed directly from the SDI from our 2 cameras both using a Aja ioHD to ProRes and also directly into our Kona 3 to uncompressed and it all looks pretty bad, the SxS is much better. The SDI should look alot better then the 35mbit off the SxS. It does not. No sighted person would have any trouble picking the image with the higher fidelity. Like others I wanted to be able to record from the SDI when doing green screen. The keys I am pulling using keylight in AE are very good from the HQ 35mbit SxS but really really bad from the SDI.

Also when at Band Pro I asked a direct question to Michael Bravin “Does the EX1 SDI output a clean 10bit 4.2.2 signal from the block before compression processing like the F900R?”

[Mark Palmos]

you must have a bad cable john!

jokes aside

i dont know a lot about camera electronics, but it seems odd the SDI output should be ANY different from the 35HQ footage… considering it would be bumping to uncompressed from compressed, there is no further compression to do.

the SDI output is of no use to me, but it would seem very odd for sony to not connect the SDI to the signal before it gets compressed to MPEG.

im pretty curious now, anybody else done any testing, have good explanations?

later
mark.

[John Ryan]

Your right Mark there is no further compression to do, it’s the decompression back to a uncompressed SDI signal that is the problem. I think the signal coming out the SDI is video that has been compressed to 35mbit Long GOP MPEG2 and then decompressed with pull down added and sent out the SDI. So it is one generation old at that point. I think the SDI is really only for monitoring.

John