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Dual-system sound timecode discrepancy
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[Uli Kunkel] “Captured the whole tape using Capture now. “
Bingo.
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What do you mean Bingo?
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Unless your tape is one long continuous clip, your tc is not going to be accurate.
Log and capture, don’t capture now.
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So are you saying that if I had logged and captured the clips on the tape then the timecode would have matched up with the sound?
I don’t understand. The timecode on the tape is the timecode on the clip is it not? Also, to account for pre- and post-roll, I’ll have to lost 3 seconds on the head and tail of each clip. Further, FCP/Kona loses track of where on the tape it is when there are all kinds of timecode breaks. Logging and capturing would be pretty much impossible.
And again, even if the cadence were interrupted or offset by digitizing with Capture Now, it wouldn’t be 17 seconds or a minute and a half off.
People capture entire tapes at once all the time. It’s the fastest and most efficient way to do it.
I’m still convinced that this is an issue with how the sound was recorded.
Thank you for your advice though.
Uli
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[Uli Kunkel] “So are you saying that if I had logged and captured the clips on the tape then the timecode would have matched up with the sound?”
If everything was done properly on set, yes.
[Uli Kunkel] “I don’t understand. The timecode on the tape is the timecode on the clip is it not?”
If you capture now, the tc is started from where you hit capture now, and then goes all the way through unitl the capture ends in one continuous tc clip. It does not necessarily reflect the tc on the tape as FCP won’t pick up the tc if it changes in the middle of your capture, or if you lose a frame or two of tc numbers, or lose a minute or two. Said another way, once you start the capture now, the tc starts at where ever you have started the capture and ends when you end it, and it does not change as the tc changes on the tape.
[Uli Kunkel] “Further, FCP/Kona loses track of where on the tape it is when there are all kinds of timecode breaks.”
So you are saying there are tc breaks? There might be breaks in the tc even if everything was recorded properly on set. If you log and capture around any tc breaks, it will be captured properly. Tell us more about the tc on the tape. Is it TOD, rec run, what is it?
[Uli Kunkel] “And again, even if the cadence were interrupted or offset by digitizing with Capture Now, it wouldn’t be 17 seconds or a minute and a half off. “
Why not? What if during the shoot, the tc was reset by 17 seconds, or 1.5 minutes? If a clip was reviewed in camera and then reset improperly, or reset properly but not to the end frame of the last take, your tc is not necessarily continuous on the tape. This is video 101.
[Uli Kunkel] “People capture entire tapes at once all the time. It’s the fastest and most efficient way to do it. “
It is definitely the fastest way to get media in to the system, but certainly not the most accurate and therefore efficiency decreases as time goes on. I will leave it up to you if you think trying to sync inaccurate timecode and with other elements that rely on this timecode is faster than doing it right in the first place. Yes, it might take more time to get the media in the system, but from here on out the tc will be accurate across all devices. To me, this means a speedier edit as you aren’t needing to fix your mistakes.
[Uli Kunkel] “I’m still convinced that this is an issue with how the sound was recorded.”
It’s never your own fault, is it?
This is really easy to check. Go to the end of end of your capture now sessions in FCP. Now take the corresponding tape and fast forward to the end of the tape. Look at the tc in FCP, and compare that to the tc on the tape. Do they match?
Was the audio recorded in one long continuous clip that matches each tape?
If there were lockit boxes and someone that knew how to use them, my hunch is that those people knew what they were doing. Capturing now has never been a recommended workflow in FCP, especially when syncing to other sources. It is quite simply inaccurate tc. As I can’t see the media and tapes on your end, I would start with what I see is your workflow problem that I can point to, and that is the capture now process.
Jeremy
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[Jeremy Garchow] “It does not necessarily reflect the tc on the tape as FCP won’t pick up the tc if it changes in the middle of your capture, or if you lose a frame or two of tc numbers, or lose a minute or two. “
Actually, it should reflect the timecode on the tape. Without timecode accuracy, none of this editing stuff would work too well. And if there’s a break in the timecode, FCP/Kona stops the deck and creates a new clip.
[Jeremy Garchow] “So you are saying there are tc breaks? “
Yes, there are timecode breaks. They shot time-of-day, starting and stopping the camera.
[Jeremy Garchow] “What if during the shoot, the tc was reset by 17 seconds, or 1.5 minutes? If a clip was reviewed in camera and then reset improperly, or reset properly but not to the end frame of the last take, your tc is not necessarily continuous on the tape. “
That never happened. It’s a reality show shoot. No shots were reviewed. They shot the tape and threw it in their bag as fast as they could reload.
[Jeremy Garchow] “It’s never your own fault, is it?”
The whole reason I started this thread was to explore the possibility that I WAS doing something wrong. I said this in my first post.
[Jeremy Garchow] “This is really easy to check. Go to the end of end of your capture now sessions in FCP. Now take the corresponding tape and fast forward to the end of the tape. Look at the tc in FCP, and compare that to the tc on the tape. Do they match?”
I will check and report back and also try the log and capture method.
[Jeremy Garchow] “Was the audio recorded in one long continuous clip that matches each tape?”
Yes.
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[Uli Kunkel] “Actually, it should reflect the timecode on the tape. Without timecode accuracy, none of this editing stuff would work too well.”
I think you are misunderstanding me. You have to make sure you capture it correctly before you can call it accurate. The tape is right, FCP might not be.
[Uli Kunkel] “And if there’s a break in the timecode, FCP/Kona stops the deck and creates a new clip.”
If you have the prefs setup that way. It doesn’t have to, it’s a user option. Also, you didn’t happen to capture bars on any of the tapes, did you?
[Uli Kunkel] “That never happened. It’s a reality show shoot. No shots were reviewed. They shot the tape and threw it in their bag as fast as they could reload.”
OK, this is all good info.
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Uli,
To make sure what your sound recordist has recorded you can use my BWF iXML Reader, its an analysis tool for BWAV files which do have an iXML – most of the newer recorder have implemented that.
Regards
AndreasSpherico
https://www.spherico.com/filmtools
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