DSLR dilemma

[Jim Makichuk]

Thanks all of you, lots of suggestions. Looks like I’ll just give it a try experimenting first and then either shoot with the 60d or just rent a Sony HD camera and not have to play with the Canon.

I think I made a mistake with the DSLR’s, bad audio and the clip issue, I should have tried before I bought.

[Ken Jones]

I own a pair of Nikon D800 DSLRs. The D800 will roll for 20 minutes without stopping. I generally stop/start while the interviewer is asking a question. I shoot with both at the same time and get excellent results. I try to put the cameras as close together as possible and shot one on a medium shot and one on a close up. Here is an example: https://vimeo.com/66659835

[Bill Bruner]

Jim – This is the dirty little secret of mirror box DSLRs, which the manufacturers don’t mention in their advertising. They are all 30 minute (or less) “video clip” cameras, not video cameras.

Instead of going back to an HD camcorder, you might want to trade the 60D in for a mirrorless $998 Panasonic GH3 for long form interviews, if you can. It has better resolution than the Canons, more depth of field control than your camcorder, more codec flexibility and more frame rates than any DSLR, virtually unlimited continuous video recording outside of the EU, manual audio gain, LCD sound meters and a headphone jack in a water-resistant body below $1000 (body only).

Here is what this camera can do in an interview setting (sound recorded in-camera):

https://vimeo.com/55095996

Hope this is helpful and good luck!

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution

[Jim Makichuk]

I think you’re right, chris suggested the G3 a few post above and I checked it out. I’ve rented Sony HD’s and Panasonic also which are great but I can’t swing for a $5000 camera. I like the idea of dslr lenses though. I might drop by Samy’s here in LA, they stock almost everything and try it out.

Only question about G3 is audio? DSLR’s tend to not have great audio and are used with recorders like Zoom and Tascom as camera audio not great. Although being able to record for 40-50 minutes without stopping solves the audio problem by using recorder.

[Steve Crow]

Jim,

Unless you are willing to spend many tens of thousands of dollars, a traditional videocamera is going to have a very hard time giving you the filmic look that $3000 or so gives you in a full frame DSLR which is the very reason they are so popular. I remember having a OLD Canon HV20 or something like that I tried to use with a RedRock Micro cinema lens adapter but it was such a pain in the ass to set up properly that I returned the RedRock in favor of, eventually, my Canon DSLR.

I am not sure why you would even consider going back to the traditional videocamera world unless its for convenience and maybe price.

Even the Canon 6D, their entry level full frame camera which sells for under $2,000 (body only), is going to give a much more pleasing image than any pro or prosumer traditional videocamera that is in any kind of reasonable price range for the normal human being.

So, going back to a Sony traditional videocamera is going back to the video look which is fine if you are happy with that look. Even my lowly Canon T2i, which you can now get for probably under $400 used, has a superior image to those vastly more expensive traditional videocameras I was mentioning earlier. I used to shoot everything with the Panasonic AG-HVX200 myself but sold it go the DSLR route fulltime.

I have nothing against the Panasonic G3 cameras in terms of the body itself even though I opt to shoot with Canons myself. I’d only make sure of the lens selection meets your needs first but there’s usually options to work around any lens issues with adapters and so on.

Then there’s the whole new and often pricey world of “hybrid” DSLR/videocam cameras like Red, BlackMagic, the Canon C100-300-500 Cinema line and so on that try to merge the best qualities of the two, representing a whole new class of camera in my estimation. I’m not sure if anyone has come up with a clever category name for them yet. Just looking at price, the Black Cinema Pocket Cinema Cam is hard to beat at under $1,000 but I believe the sensor size is no larger than a APS-C sensor.

I couldn’t tell exactly from the phrasing of your latest comment regarding DSLR audio quality but I hope you realize that no one really uses the Zoom or Tascam for its microphone. It’s just the recording device into which we plug very high quality microphone systems. So this gives a DSLR a very high quality audio recording solution. Granted, it IS a pain to have deal with dual audio but I believe in your original post you said you were used to handling that.

JIm – Best of luck in finding the solution that is right for you be it a DSLR, a hybrid or something else! 🙂

Steve Crow
Crow Digital Media
http://www.CrowDigitalMedia.com

[Steve Crow]

Bill,

If you think back to the Panavision style Hollywood film cameras – they could only shoot for what…15 or 20 minutes per film load? (I’m hazy on the details but I remember it wasn’t long)

So I don’t think the 12 minute recording time by itself relegates a camera to a video “clip” device. In my experience 12 minutes is plenty of time for narrative, documentary, news and straight up interview work. Honestly, it takes me less than 3 seconds to hit the stop record and record button to start a new clip and give myself another 12 minutes recording time – if I overrun that 12 minute window yes I’m screwed but it’s only happened to me maybe once.

Someone else mentiond using external recorders like the Atmos to get “unlimited” recording time but for that you have to make sure your camera gives a “clean” HDMI out signal meaning without overlays.

Steve Crow
Crow Digital Media
http://www.CrowDigitalMedia.com

[Jim Makichuk]

I go back to 16mm news filming, and 400 feet lasted about 18 minutes or so, had to load a lotta mags. I worked alot on camera, mostly 16mm and finally changed to screenwriting. Less carrying stuff.

But when I discovered FCP3 years ago I got back in for little docs in between movies and enjoyed DV just for that.

I’m doing a doc on a WW11 guy who was in Pacific campaign and wanted to use DSLR’s just to see how it works vs $3000 cameras, and yes, most of the shooting is on the run as is another doc about a sax player with a disease.

But now that I can get longer video I like to not interrupt the interviewee with distractions… It took me two years to even use cards rather than cassettes!! At any rate, thanks for all the advice, it’s really helpful.

[Bill Bruner]

I agree 100%, Jim. I started in Super 8 in film school and moved up to 16mm magazines. In Super 8 at 24fps, a 50′ cartridge was 2 and a half minutes!

But now that I can shoot for hours without interruption, a camera that requires a restart every 12 to 30 minutes seems like a throwback to the last century, and interrupts the flow of the work – especially an interview or a play.

Good luck with your doc – it sounds like a great project.

Bill

[Jim Makichuk]

These little docs keep me off the streets, never make any money from them but they’re a lot of fun… I miss the old CP-16 camera but my favorite was the Arri 16 BL, a beautiful film camera.

[Roger Martin]

I had a Super 8 and never ran out of “film”.
I guess my attention span was not very long.
I’ve had many under $1000 Videocams since but much prefer my Nikon V1 with PowerZoom lens.
I’ve had or tried nearly every Nikon DSLR made + the 5D2. The best of the lot is the new D5300.
That is because of the 1080P 60 Video quality, but it only last 10 minutes due to file limits.

So, I ordered a GH3 + 14-140 video lens just to extend recording + hopefully improve FullTime AutoFocus.
I should get it January 9-14th and will compare with the D5300 by shooting both at same time with Azden mics.

The only affordable external recorder that does 1080P 60 is the Odyssey7, that has not been released yet.
So I will send back the Panasonic and get it, if the Nikon proves better Video image quality.