Determining Editing Rates for a Non-Existent Market

[Bob Zelin]

this thread is becoming insane. Look – if you are a KID, you should get a little job to help support you.
You DO NOT need to be “in your own business” if you are planing to go back to school in Austin.
You should be thinking about getting an INTERNSHIP (free) in Austin with a real company, so when you are ready to WORK FOR SOMEONE, then you will have some real world experience.

AND THEN you start your own company. Stop whining about “I can’t make any money” – stop this nonsense with starting your own business before you have even worked for anyone.

I will make this simple – you can’t open a McDonnalds franchise without working in a fast food joint first.
I actually saw a Dunkin Doughnuts go OUT OF BUSINESS – how does this happen – because someone with money who had no idea of how to make doughnuts or run a business said “I will invest in a business”.
You may know Adobe products, but you know nothing about working, and working for someone, and getting clients. You CANNOT start a business before you have worked for someone in your industry.
This includes the Pizza store, or lawn service business. GET A JOB, learn what running a business involves, and then start your own business. You are just being foolish right now, because you want money “for school and dates”, and you have no idea of how to proceed.

Bob Zelin

[Patrick Reagan]

Before I reply to the wealth of helpful and useful posts I’ve received, I must address Mr. Zelin’s comment first:

Mr. Zelin, in all due respect, you have made some fairly outlandish claims and assumptions about a person you do not even know, especially when you think I am a whining kid that is… after money for dates? I’m sorry, you are completely mistaken. You take me to be some whippersnapper in over his head when all I was originally asking for was a suggestion on how to move on a market that hasn’t been explored yet, and I explained my fears. For you to (incorrectly) assume that I’m a whining kid that doesn’t work or whatever seems unreasonable to me, especially when I’ve held a job since I was 17, and I have worked at a production company before. I don’t remember the part where I was whining about not being able to make money; I don’t remember even saying that… because I didn’t. I haven’t started offering any type of services to anyone in the first place because I am trying to get prepared and organized for such a thing. I am seeking internships, scholarships, etc. I’m trying everything in my power to break into the realm of media production.

I see nothing wrong with trying to get a very small side business of cutting together footage or whatever I find in order to develop my skill, supplement my primary income, and most important of all, bring service to a customer and know that they are pleased with the service in the first place. I don’t feel it is absolutely essential to have worked at a production company or whatever in order to say, “I can make a graphical intro for you for 150 dollars.” It wouldn’t matter anyway because, like I said, I have worked at a production company, so I’ve already met your non-existent prerequisite on that front. So, please, you have stated your opinion, and I hesitantly respect it even though the basis of it was completely unfounded, and I did not enjoy your assumptions about me and my character, so I’m not sure if I would like to seek advice from you further. Thanks for understanding.

Now, to address the more supportive and helpful replies I have gotten:

Tim, thank you again for your great advice.

Mark, you have given me excellent ideas and support. Some of these things I haven’t really thought of before. I do tend to play Battlefield 3 every once in a while; I could try and explore that option further and see what happens. I have no problem with going out and scouting the area to ask businesses and others if they are needing anything you have mentioned. In fact, this week is my college’s spring break, so I am going to jump on those opportunities based on your recommendations. As far as which salesman I am, I would definitely have to say I am the latter. That’s part of why I decided to post here. I have a potential market sitting right in front of me with no other competitors, and I’ll never know 100% if it’s really as dead as it seems until I actually prod it with a stick.

Tom, thank you for your suggestion. I didn’t even think about querying distant production companies to try to work remotely for them. I’ll try that as well. As far as your question about a 50 dollar invoice, I would probably not feel too well if I was paid only 50 bucks, in this example, to invest two days of work along with a billion extra hours of modifications.

[Mark Suszko]

Yeah, my main point was that in the kind of place Patrick lives in, he’s got a better chance doing B-to-B (Business-to-Business) marketing than working directly for typical consumers for no margin.

Patrick, Bob’s advice is ALWAYS worth a listen; he’s gruff but ever so seldom wrong. If he’s off-base in his perceptions of your age and ability, blame yourself for not giving enough initial detail, but don’t shut Bob out without giving him a good listen because the man has seen a lot of stuff and knows his business.

[Tom Sefton]

I would hazard a guess that during busy season, wedding videographers would pay $50-$100 for an edit, boilerplate grade and then some AE work on a mass of h264 footage and stills from a Dropbox account. Poke a stick into some bears in the area and see if you get some honey.

[Patrick Reagan]

I can understand that and respect it fully, in that case. I don’t want to shut him out.

As a mild-mannered retort, I’m not completely sure why those certain assumptions were made just because I didn’t explain something that I didn’t even think was necessary to provide in the first place.

In light of all this, I will happily forgive Bob for any assumptions that were made, and I will apologize for not providing enough detail. I wish to have no ill feelings towards Bob, and I do understand and respect his seniority on the subject.

[Bob Zelin]

Listen Patrick, you should be angry. I am trying to “work you up”. You should stop being a nice guy, and go out there and KILL. If there are a million editors in Austin and Dallas, and you want to be in this business, you have to COMPETE against them, and show your clients that you can do a BETTER JOB than they can do, so that you are employed, and that they starve. Not a nice picture ? Well, this is what it’s like when there are too many “xzy” of one profession – you have to seperate yourself from the pack, to show why they should hire you. You stated that you are the ONLY person in your area, and people still think that your rates are crazy. As I stated before, you CANNOT make a living in your area, unless you want to do weddings. You have to move. And when you move, you have to compete. I am not questioning for one second that you are a very talented graphics/editor/AE person – I am sure that you are. but guess what – there are a lot of guys out there that are as good as you. And guess what – there are a lot of guys out there that are a LOT better than I am – and I have to CONVINCE PEOPLE on a regular basis that they should hire ME instead of THEM. This is part of being in business. As you continue to do this (should you want to continue to do this), you will become angered that someone with half your qualifications and abilities will get the job, and it may have nothing to do with how much they charged. And this should make you ANGRY.

Being an independent contractor or a small business person is not fun. It makes you money. It doesn’t make a difference if you are an After Effects or Smoke artist, or you are running a tire shop – you have to compete, and your competition wants only one thing – to get your business. I know very well what it is like to be in an area where there is no work. If I did not adapt my business in Orlando, FL. to become more of a national operation (other states) instead of just Orlando, FL. I would be starving right now. Orlando is not New York City, which is where I am from, and where there was tons of work. I wanted to live here, and I had to adapt, or I would be on food stamps right now. In addition to having to learn about all these new video products, software programs, networking techniques, etc. I have to deal with CONVINCING PEOPLE TO HIRE ME.
It’s exhausting, and every business person on this forum faces the same thing. Having your own business is not having a steady job. It’s work.

Just look at Creative Cow (for example). They kicked the ass out of the print publications, and don’t you think that every one of these publications is trying to figure out how to make Ron and Tim STARVE, so that they can get all the sponsors on their site. And they don’t care if their families suffer, and they starve, and are in the street, with no shoes, and no food – THEY WANT ADOBE and AJA as their sponsor,and they will do whatever they can to make this happen.

I am sure that you are a very talented person in our business. You must adapt, so you can make a living, be it support your family, pay for school, or buy crack (whatever you want to do with your money is your business). It’s not nice out there in the business world.

Bob Zelin

[Patrick Reagan]

I appreciate your input immensely, Bob. You are right on every point, and this is all very motivating. I’m very glad that all of you have been so supportive and realistic while also providing very rich insight into the business end of the production realm.

I’m gonna continue to absorb all this information because it’s all so freaking good!

[Mark Suszko]

We expect a report Monday night on where in town you stepped up and knocked on a business’ door.:-)

[Patrick Reagan]

I’m half a step ahead! I’ve asked the local print shop (that is sending me a proof for a logo design I have) if they are needing any type of advertisement or video spot, and they said they might be interested, so I’ll keep you updated on that, as well!

[Tom Sefton]

Bob your posts get me so fired up I want to punch the video editor that works a few miles from me and steal his wife. Love it.