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Dell vs Apple
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[Tim Wilson] “Not even vaguely the case, even in Hollywood. It certainly WAS true, but it’s simply not anymore. In much of Europe and Asia, it far skews toward Windows.
I say this having worked for two different companies selling both Mac and Windows software and hardware into markets around the world, including very heavily into Hollywood, and could see the numbers myself.
Here in the COW, the mix is about 60% Windows, 40% Mac. If anything, I would think that the Mac number skews high, because of the number of people who WORK on Windows, but SURF on Mac. I can’t imagine that the there are many people working on Macs and surfing on Windows. :-)”
So maybe a little bit of misunderstanding here? The rest of his quote that you responded too was
“This was for field work, not desk top editing in post”.
Now seeing that, I’m not sure how statistics about the mix of windows and mac users on the COW or elsewhere
means a lot? It sounds like this person was talking about one very specific use of a computer….primarily mobile
computing in the field. I would presume for use in DIT type duties? In my (admittedly limited) experience, I have
never seen a windows computer used as a DIT station. These are not big hollywood projects I worked on….
stuff like Alaska Bush People and Survivor Alaska and American Eagle Outfitters. Of course, I’m sure windows laptops
are used….however…..this point made me wonder about something. I’m now wondering if the fact that Apple seems
to be so focused on laptops and ‘mobile computers’ to the point where many feel they are almost abandoning the mac pro
has anything to do with this perception? Might many places use an Apple laptop for ‘in the field’ DIT work but then back in the
edit bay, work on a windows box for the actual editing?Gabe Strong
G-Force Productions
http://www.gforcevideo.com -
[Gabe Strong] “n my (admittedly limited) experience, I have
never seen a windows computer used as a DIT station. “I have no doubt that this is your experience. It’s not mine.
There are definitely people in the COW with a broader global experience than mine, but in my previous jobs, with editors in the field all over the world, I saw plenty of them. There are also stories all through the COW library of people who are using Windows computers for DIT work, albeit almost exclusively with HP computers.
(In fact, one of my favorite stories about an overnight HP parts replacement was told by a guy in this very forum who was working on location in Brazil. The part came to his hotel, which was admittedly a few hours drive from his location…but it was there, waiting for him.)
Admittedly a lot of my observations are as anecdotal as yours, and no more or less valid. Again, I wholeheartedly believe your observation, and don’t question it in the least. It just doesn’t jibe with mine.
[Gabe Strong] “I’m not sure how statistics about the mix of windows and mac users on the COW or elsewhere means a lot?”for their jobs.
One reason I sometimes don’t post for a while is that I read every post that goes up in the COW. Somebody has to, and it’s me.
Most days, it’s a couple thousand. On a day like the release of FCPX, it was a good many tens of thousands. It took me weeks to catch up that month.
But I’m tellin’ ya man, Windows computers are being used for work in bountiful numbers, in every part of the industry, including DIT, video villages, and the like. I’m certain that Windows is at least equal to Mac in many (but not all) segments of the business, including in the field. In other parts of the business, including entire regions, Windows is much the majority.
I do understand your point that I may have responded to too narrow a part of Claude’s post, and that may be true. But as I mentioned, the combination of my own observations, and what people in the COW say about the computers they use, including in the field, is pretty persuasive.
I certainly didn’t mean to suggest that there aren’t settings where Macs are the MAJORITY; this is certainly the case in much of Hollywood, but that’s a long way from calling them the de facto standard in ANY market.
And please note from previous post, this is by no means a knock on Macs. My own video production business was built exclusively on Macs. I’m just saying.
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[Tim Wilson] “Not to be defensive, but I don’t see how you can say that. We have 300,000 members, and average nearly 2 million visitors a month. Over the course of the year, from nearly 200 countries and territories. I can’t imagine that anybody has a broader slice of the market to pull data from than we do.
And I’m not just talking about the ways that people visit the COW. I’m talking about how THEY talk about the computers they use for their jobs.
One reason I sometimes don’t post for a while is that I read every post that goes up in the COW. Somebody has to, and it’s me.
Most days, it’s a couple thousand. On a day like the release of FCPX, it was a good many tens of thousands. It took me weeks to catch up that month. “
Well, I’m hoping you understand me here but….you are almost making my point. 300,000 members and 2 million visitors per month.
So how many of these people are ‘only doing work in the field’? I’m just guessing here, but I think my guess is probably pretty
educated. And my guess would be that a large number of the people that visit the COW are editors. Taking huge numbers,
from ‘a broad slice of the market’ and trying to apply that ‘broad data’ to a very narrow segment can cause….let’s just say
‘mis-observations’. I remember in the late 1990’s and early 2000’s when I had all kinds of IT people trying to convince me
that NO ONE in the video industry used Mac’s. The basis for this assertion? The fact that they had seen statistics that
Macs had less than 5% of the total computer desktop share. Never mind that 98% of those statistics were related to people
working in the business world that wouldn’t know a a L cut from a paper cut.In other words, I’m not saying Macs ARE the predominant DIT laptop. I’m saying that you can’t infer they MUST NOT BE,
because of statistics based on tens of thousands of people (many of whom are not DIT people) who frequent this website.
It is quite possible you have access to statistics about what people on this site use their computers for that I don’t, so
if that is the case I would take your word for it. But I don’t even see a section on COW for DIT folks….I’m looking through
the forum right now and see nothing even close……which leads me to believe that again, you are taking anecdotal posts,
comments, and other things you hear to reach your conclusions. And your conclusion may be right.My totally random observation was only that I personally notice most productions and production people ‘in the field’ (because lets
be honest, when productions shoot in Alaska they are definitely ‘in the field’ mode) are using Macs….and
I have an inkling that Mac laptops are much more popular than are their desktops. In other words, I’d almost expect
to see more windows machines when it comes to the actual work in edit bays. But that’s not anything I would make a
statistical bet on either…..because I don’t have access to any actual numbers just again anecdotal stuff I see.Maybe a better way to get the message across would have been for the teacher to tell the film student….
“You should probably learn to use a Mac as well as a PC. Because in the video world, unlike the wider business world,
Macs are actually used in something at least approximating equal numbers to Windows machines…especially when
you are talking about laptops!”Gabe Strong
G-Force Productions
http://www.gforcevideo.com -
[Gabe Strong] “Yes, you only have the expansion options that
are in the Mac Pro (4 slots), but you can do more with these machines than many people
realize. “Thanks for the info Gabe. I might do one last round of upgrades to my ’09 MP to keep in viable for a bit longer. Not ready yet to decide whether or not I want to make the jump back to Windows.
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Just to toss in my two cents…
In my neck of the woods (Los Angeles, mainly doc/unscripted and web content) the last time I remember seeing a PC-based NLE was a guy running Avid on a PC in 2006/2007. Even years ago when I was in the Midwest I only remember seeing 1 PC NLE (another Avid) in the half-dozen or so TV stations and post houses I went to. 100% anecdotal of course, but Macs are by far the platform of choice in my experience.
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[Gabe Strong] “You should probably learn to use a Mac as well as a PC… “
That’s good, sound advice. Both platforms have advantages.
The thing that gets me in this article is this quote:
“I will be anti-PC forever,” she [Jessica Ruggieri] said of her disdain for Windows machines. She imprinted on the Mac lineage when she first learned how to use computers. “I’m very comfortable with it. Not only is it a beautiful workspace, it’s beautifully designed, aesthetic and streamlined. Compatibility with Mac hardware and software [makes a Mac] one clean system.”
If Ms. Ruggieri were a little more pro-Mac and a little less anti-PC, she might recognize that other systems aside from Macintosh have the characteristics she is vaguely describing.
Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive | RenderBreak [blog] | Profile [LinkedIn] -
After buying Mac and investing heavily in thunderbolt 2 storage, it hasn’t been a possibility until now for us to consider moving back to PC, but with the HP range now supporting it, there is a way to do it without wasting £20k+ of storage.
Only problem is, we are using FCPX more and more, and for one particular project it is totally integral, and something Adobe cannot do….sometimes the extra grunt just isn’t worth it when a machine and software hasn’t let you down once in 2 years or so.
Co-owner at Pollen Studio
http://www.pollenstudio.co.uk -
[David Roth Weiss] “And, most issues are NOT typically with the computer hardware itself, but rather with integration of software and peripherals.”
David, I’ve been thinking about this a lot.
In my experience, most issues people have are either educational issues or purely software issues (bugs/bad documentation), not “integration of software and peripherals.” These kinds of issues should be solved by the developer’s support team (ha).
Let’s understand what VARs do a little better. What kinds of problems can you call your VAR with and get immediate help? What kinds of problems will they be unable to assist with?
Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive | RenderBreak [blog] | Profile [LinkedIn] -
Comments not connected to BAVC. The suggestion to buy a Mac for field work was for those trying to get into paying gigs on smaller shoots around the Bay Area. A fully loaded MacBook Pro is a major investment for these students.
Anyway, I am enjoying the passion this subject generates on the COW. -
[Walter Soyka] “n my experience, most issues people have are either educational issues or purely software issues (bugs/bad documentation), not “integration of software and peripherals.” These kinds of issues should be solved by the developer’s support team (ha).”
Walter,
But, which “developer’s support team” are you referring to?
Users who have as you put it, “educational issues,” typically don’t have a clue what is at the root of their issues – due to their lack of knowledge they tend get bounced back and forth between developers. You have software developers pointing at the hard are developers, and vice versa. This is precisely the shortcoming of DIY troubleshooting and DIY support, and we see that here on the Cow all day, everyday.
As I’ve said before, if you have more time than money, do it all yourself – you’ll lose creative time, but you will save money.
On the other hand, if efficiency and creativity are your goals, get to work and leave he integration and troubleshooting to the pros.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss ProductionsDavid is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.
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