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Creative Cow Jobs – the do’s and don’t – some advice please
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Hey Craig – i see what you mean about the low paying job Albatros.
and i looked over your rate calculator. Seems like a good one for just about any business.
Seems i have a lot to mull over and consider.
Let ask you though about bread and butter jobs – like the one mentioned – $25 bucks for a graphic file conversion didn’t seem bad to me.
While waiting on the Rolls Royce jobs to come in
– what do you do for filler jobs?$150 for an background removal of 40 seconds didn’t seem too bad – to me of course. (that was another CC Job i looked at) though i recomended they consider another option which the $150 might better serve for a better end result.
As far as forms – are there standard forms you or anyone would recomend for either video or graphics or audio work
– or things that your work forms should definitly be sure to state to protect you and/or protect the client?thanx
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[chase canadé] “Let ask you though about bread and butter jobs – like the one mentioned – $25 bucks for a graphic file conversion didn’t seem bad to me.
While waiting on the Rolls Royce jobs to come in
– what do you do for filler jobs?”It really depends on time needed for the job. If the calculator shows $50/hr and you can do the job in half an hour, given there’s not travel time and shipping cost or FTP time is accounted for than you can do it.
If jobs are below what you need to survive then “filler” is used for marketing to get proper paying work. That’s why I assuming a 20-25/hr paid work week to meet all expenses. You’re going to spend a lot of time marketing. It’s also why repeat clients and word of mouth are highly valuable. It’s better to spend “filler” time to go after one reasonable paying repeat client than lots of “one shots” in which you can’t make ends meet and put you on a hamster wheel tied to a boat anchor.
If you can’t make ends meet than one should examine the business model relative to expenses and marketing. Going below your survival rate doesn’t win.
If you want to do resume/reel work find a non profit and produce a killer video and your credited video may make you appealing to their donors who obviously have money.
Once any “paying client” circle knows your prices are low and spreads that, your business is sunk. When someone comes to you expecting $25 for the day because they heard that and you tell them $400, they’re gone. All their associates are gone. Your business is finished because of poor marketing.
[chase canadé] “$150 for an background removal of 40 seconds didn’t seem too bad – to me of course. (that was another CC Job i looked at) though i recomended they consider another option which the $150 might better serve for a better end result.”
If it takes you an hour, great. If it takes you a day or two, tighten the albatross rope. Price per “job” is meaningless without knowing details so you can estimate time.
While working at a high end post host in the days of tape and I was booked with a client who simply wanted a few lower thirds removed. The people in scheduling were CLUELESS. There were no clean sources. The client thought I could simply “remove” the lower thirds exposing the original shot. After looking at the job and explaining what an edit room can/can’t do, I told him it’s really a roto job. He didn’t even have close to the budget for that. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER accept a client’s description as accurate. Make your own judgement or get the judgement of experienced peers.
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Hey Craig –
aaah – now what your saying makes more sense to me.
Perhaps the terms CC used to describe the jobs listed is not the best. Perhaps low production or Small Jobs or something of that nature would be more befitting a discripter…
But i do fully understand your point now – don’t low ball or get into low ball production pricing that under cuts your production cost needs and of course allow enough profit to take care of future marketing – and hopefully growth.
One can except small jobs as well as larger jobs but preferably target your marketing towards repeat business and given what some have said that doesn’t go beyond your production capabilities.
Love the advice on not taking the what the customer states or job discripter states at face value – especially for pricing. Always know exactly what it’s going to take to accomplish what the customer is truly after – and price accordingly.
A lot is common sense stuff but – easily over looked just starting out.
As far as charities – i really don’t know any that i’d even want to deal with – as far as i’m conserned anyway… from what i’ve seen – their all such bs. They may have a great logo and the logo means well but behind the scenes … i best not say much more.
And i’m in no way religous – i want nothing to do with people that are. They are worse thatn the chatities from what i’ve seen. or maybe they’re equals …??
My biggest mistake thus far has been not gettting it in writing. being new to a lot of this – i’m eager to show what i can do at times – i’m sure a lot of people have been there.
That’s been a hard lesson to learn for me – i pretty trusting almost to a fault and as stated – This is all still new to me – and the more i learn, the more eager i get – anxious even.
I see a comp or someone doing this or that in a production situation – be it webmastering – AE – Sound engineering what ever – especially via software with some great gear and i want jump in on it. It’s really tuff to curb the “let me do it or let me show you how it’s easy” for me at the moment
– but i am learning to esepecially after the last one – they took real advantage of me… which was kinda an eye opening experience in a way – i did take some postives from the experience so not all was lost.live and learn as they say.
and now i’m ready to get payed – so i can be around another day.
Beside i want some new gear and new software… and clothes… and a new car…Thanx guys for all your help – really great advice!
thanx
chase -
[chase canadé] “As far as charities – i really don’t know any that i’d even want to deal with – as far as i’m conserned anyway… from what i’ve seen – their all such bs. They may have a great logo and the logo means well but behind the scenes … i best not say much more.”
If you feel that way about charities, and that’s understandable, why afford a higher regard for a for profit business for whom some would work for for next to nothing?
The difference is perception and that’s what you as marking person (and you MUST be one) have to deal with. Working for a non profit will be perceived as a good deed by those with money and they will not question that the price they were charged (maybe free) would be different then what a new, for profit, client would pay.
To put it bluntly, if one is going to work for low pay/no pay it’s best to chose work that is more likely to bring future high pay. Low pay/no pay for a non profit will not hang an albatross around your neck. That’s what it comes down to.
[chase canadé] “And i’m in no way religous – i want nothing to do with people that are. They are worse thatn the chatities from what i’ve seen. or maybe they’re equals …??”
Many if not most charities have nothing to do with religion. In fact the ones that do, generally are most likely to have money to pay since they often have very strong financial resources for marketing. In fact, you believe most non profits are religious based, it may speak to the fact that you have not yet well analyzed what markets to pursue.
One market one should never pursue is bottom feeders and “grinders.” No good can come of it. The “experience” will be more costly than profitably and more likely inflict either short term or even long term damage to your business.
Better to do a fun and creative job with your buddies which will show off your talents than to work for a business who will take advantage of you and then spread that info around.
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i do understand what you mean… from a marketing point of view about charities… i do…
Bottom Feeders and “Grinders”
would you mind defining those terms?
– i think i know what you mean by Bottom Feeders – but not sure as i know a couple ways i can be used and meant.
Grinders – i’ve never heard that term used before
– except the kind you eat. (hoggies – subs – grinders)What is the market of Grinders? and Bottom Feeders?
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Hey Craig,
thanx for the link.It was definitly a good read.
I can certainly attest to many businesses in my local area that fit the grinder or bottome feeder catagory… too many perhaps. Seems that is all ive run into for many a year now.
I thought by studing graphics – vfx etc and then seeing the Jobs listing here on CC i could climb my way out of the crab basket so to speak – i’m really sick of the circle jerks and want to make my escape so to speak.
Hence i’ve been looking hard at ways around or over what seems to surround me.
Being a single person here – with just a oomp and some apps and very little gear… i have to do what i can with what i have. And with many locally trying to hold me down orkeep that thumb pressed down on me. And i know it is happening – one would have to be blind or a complete idiot not to see it or realize it.
as mentioned – I’m looking to do what i can. but in saying that, i really don’t want to get screwed over either. or as it wass mentioned above by another taken advantage of like on craigslist just because i’m new to the industry. Hungry or perhaps even eager to get started.
I’ve run other businesses in the past with great success. I was making 6 figures with my last one, even still, Money has never been a driving force for me though i do love what money can buy. It’s [money] always been secondary to doing a high quality job and doing something i like or love doing. I’ve always been in the creative field one way or another. I’ve always started at the bottom with little or next to nothing and climbed the ladder.
Though admitedly – i’ve neve had a bunch of jerks for what evr reason constanly thwarting my rise as has taken place since my last business venture. Be that as it may – i intend on overcoming this slight wall of opposition or what ever it is some way – what ever way i can.
I’m hopeing i can achieve that start of climbing beyond the circle jerks circle or at least start something worth while by doing some jobes listed here at CC.
While money isn’t a driving force – it is nice to make some while doing what i want to do.
any further advice under that premise and given those conditions?
Figure in like i mentoned – a single creative talent which i know i have (talent) limited funds – limited gear – and many of it older pro gear for stills – some home made gear.
I’m familiar with 2D graphic software – like PS Illustrator and others.
3D i’m still learning –love vfx and definitly audio creation. background in concert lighting etc etc which i know helps.
but space is limited on my end. funds are defintly limited. and locally – the push is for me not to succeed. Or prevent me from climbing the ladder once again…
They play this “zone ” game here amongst the local networks/circles.
Aside from re-locating (which i definitly want to do just to get the heck away from these limiting factors) and funds prevent me from leaving.
point being – this is all i have at the moment CC that is and what jobs are offered. I don’t want to get in over my head by excepting a job i can’t do – – and i know better than to do so. And further more most higher paying gigs are for very experienced personel or college grads in the field or those with high end gear and a lot of it.
so… ?? what advice can you give someone like me in my position – to over throw the opposition and gain head way in the industry?
tia
chase
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