Considering going Avid

[Michael Hancock]

[Mike Dalton] “Regular Media Composer (not Adrenaline) cannot monitor HD natively. Many people don’t realize this. Media Composer cannot output HD to a monitor. “

What does this even mean? Buy a MojoDX, NitrisDX, or buy Media Composer 5.0 and a Matrox MXO2Mini and you can monitor HD to a client monitor. You’ll need a BOB for Vegas too for proper monitoring, so the point is moot.

[Mike Dalton] ” sell you Adrenaline, and therefore cripple Media Composer.”
There is no crippling Media Composer – there’s just Avid wanting to sell you Avid hardware for proper monitoring. You can’t monitor out of FCP without an AJA or Blackmagic or Matrox BOB, so what’s the difference? You can’t properly monitor out of Premiere without a BOB, so again – no difference. It’s just that FCP and Adobe don’t make hardware boxes, so you have (more) 3rd party options to choose from.

[Mike Dalton] “Current AVID management has made decisions which are ruining this once-great company. “
Current management has pushed Avid further in 2 years than it saw in the 5 years before it. Look at the improvements from 2.8 to 5.0, and the (limited) support of 3rd party hardware. How is that ruining the company? They’re more responsive to customers, they’ve lowered the price of software, they’re adding features at a faster pace and with better integration than pretty much any other NLE company near their price point.

Avid is far from dead. It’s a big ship, but they’re making a great effort at turning it around and putting it back on course.

To the OP – download the MC5 trial when it’s released June 10th and give it a test run. It’s really the best way to decide if Avid will work for you or not.

—————-
Michael Hancock
http://www.oswaldcommunications.com

[Perrone Ford]

I have to admit, I was REALLY hoping you were going to chime in here. I am incredibly curious about why you chose to take the opposite path that I have. And frankly, I think you are in for something of a very rude awakening. I’ve already noticed that you’ve run into an issue with dissolves. Something which Avid makes trivial simply doesn’t exist inside Vegas.

I’ll take your points in turn:

“I am in the opposite position – I have used AVID for 15 years, and am now moving to Vegas. The main reason? HD.”

This is very curious to me, because I have edited HD on both Vegas and MC4. I have NOT monitored HD on MC but that is because my machine has no HD monitoring ability at all. This is changing.

“With my AVID machine, I can’t preview HD. Regular Media Composer (not Adrenaline) cannot monitor HD natively. Many people don’t realize this. Media Composer cannot output HD to a monitor. Stop to think about that.”

What version of MC do you have? As I hope you are aware, MC5 will allow for HD monitoring from media composer. I have just bought the Matrox MX02 mini which allows for this in Media Composer 5.

I’ll let you stop to think about this: Sony Vegas in most instances cannot play HD in real time from the timeline.

“Although I’ve only used Vegas for about a week, I can firmly tell you that it is a much more mature, comptetent platform for modern editing (again, not including Adrenaline which costs much, much more).”

I’ve used Vegas for 7 years. And I can tell you without question, it is nowhere NEAR as mature a platform as Avid. I am not sure what you mean by “modern” editing, but if that means drag and drop editing, then yes, Vegas is more flexible that way. The problem is that flexibility can hand you a TON of rope to hang yourself. And hang you it will. I disagree somewhat that Avid is trying to sell you Adrenaline. Avid has several products aimed at different things (MC, Adrenaline, DS, etc.). And yes it’s more expensive than competitors for some things. However, MC5 is ground breaking for several reasons. I really think you’re making a mistake by jumping out right now. But that’s just my view.

“Current AVID management has made decisions which are ruining this once-great company. I will now re-learn editing from scratch after 15 years with AVID. And I’m happy to do it. And I am not alone. AVID is dead. Don’t waste your time with them.”

I am most curious about THIS statement. Everything I’ve seen from current management has been exceptionally positive. The cost reductions, the open timelines, AMA, the native support of RED and quicktime, opening up to 3rd party hardware, the purchase of Euphonix, etc. All seems positive to me. If you could, would you share a few of your thoughts on which decisions you feel Avid has made recently that are ruining the company?

I would also easily argue that Avid is long from dead. They seem to be riding a wave of resurgence with the release of MC4 and MC5. And I am happy to do so.

I do not know what kind of editing you do. So perhaps these things will not matter to you. But I can tell you some VERY specific reasons why I left Vegas for Avid.

1. I work primarily in Govt. Video. Therefore I must caption every video that I make. Vegas had no provision for that. It simply did not exist in the product. That was just a showstopper for me. A do-not-pass-go, must vacate the editor issue.

2. Vegas is unable to leverage video cards and GPUs. This means that unless your CPU can handle it, no effects are real time. NONE. There is no acceleration available ever. When working in SD, this wasn’t much of a problem. But when working in HD, it means that if you add effects (including basic dissolves), you will likely lose real-time playback.

3. Vegas does not have an accelerated codec. Unlike DNxHD on Avid, Vegas does not transcode into a broadcast level codec and give you the option for realtime playback. Cineform is the closest alternative, and you must purchase it seperately.

4. Vegas has no effectively titling program. The built in option makes Marqee look like Boris. It would be rudimentary in a $100 NLE. On a professional NLE it’s a sad joke.

5. Vegas will not collaborate. If you need AAF, OMF, or other exports, or you need to work with FCP, Protools, Cakewalk, or other professionals, you will be buying very expensive third party tools to do so.

6. Vegas has no provision for film-out. None.

7. Vegas has no track lock. You REALLY need to watch yourself on big projects.

8. Thankfully, with the newest iteration of Vegas, it finally supports DPX/EXR. However, unless you are in the 64bit version, you will be out of RAM before you can render any sequence using them.

Each NLE has it’s plusses and minuses. The things I absolutely need in an NLE exist in Avid, and do not exist in Vegas. If you primarily work in DV or HDV, Vegas will probably be quite good to you. But if you routinely work with professional level codecs, or you need to collaborate and round trip with others, you’re going to find this experience maddening.

[Mike Dalton]

Michael and Perrone –
I appreciate your comments. You both know far more about the AVID’s verbal promises than me.
I gave up with the AVID forums about 6 months ago. I know nothing about MC5 or any other future products that AVID plans to release.
I’m actually very excited that AVID has said they will support such things in the future.
I bought my AVID a few years ago, and I have been 100% unimpressed with it’s HD abilities vs. Vegas. I am unable to monitor at all, and that’s what I’m speaking about.
I was wrong to make statements without knowing what AVID has promised they will do in the future. I’m sure new AVIDs will be the most amazing things ever, and that may keep me an AVID user.
If they are allowing 3rd party hardware, then they are certainly a different company completely. The AVID I knew 6 months ago would have died rather than allow this.
Thank you both for you comments.

[Grinner Hester]

agreed.
I think you have answered your own question. I can’t think of a reason for the expense of Avid.

[Perrone Ford]

Mike,

I am really wondering if you’ve been watching Avid closely for the past year or two. I sure have. Things Avid have done in the past year or two that have impressed the HECK out of me are:

1. Getting rid of the Dongle.
2. Not only promising to support other hardware, but actually DOING it.
3. Certifiying FCP to run on Unity networks
4. Allowing drag and drop editing in the timeline
5. Allowing NATIVE quicktime editing in the MC timeline (including reading ProRes!)
6. Alowing NATIVE RED support in the MC timeline
7. Supporting ArriRAW and CineformRaw
8. Bolstering Metafuze (free) to assist with ingest and outgo of film.
9. Improving and promising to do more with Scriptsync
10. Allowing a 30 day free product trial
11. Allowing RTAS on the timeline so that you can finally do more with audio on the timeline.
12. AUTOSAVE!
13. Working diligently to reduce cost and barriers to entry to get into the product.

All these things have led me to buy the product for use not only in my corporate/govt work, but my creative indie film work as well. There must be 50 things I can do in Avid that Vegas is just incapable of. But more than anything else, what blew me away during my trial of Avid was the ability to lay my DNxHD, XDCamEX, and other files on the Avid timeline, and watch them move. In real time. And cut them while I was watching. You just cannot cut the same way in Vegas. You’ll pre-render, and make changes, and pre-render, ad-infinitum to do the same thing. It’s so slow it’s painful. And God help you if you want to do 4-5 layers of HD video and watch it actually play back.

Honestly, check out what’s new in MC5 here:

https://www.avid.com/US/products/Media-Composer-Software/features

And watch this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKoLOf9uFSU

You can see MC5 in use at NAB running off a Mac laptop and monitoring in HD.

[Grinner Hester]

You are in the same spot as most od us. As time goes on, there is somtly smaller reason to write a check to Avid. Others have moved forward over the last decade where Avid has refused to do so.
I aint bashin’ Just pinting out the obvious I guess.
In my opinion, if they wanted my business today, they’d compete for it. They gave up though. I’m still in business. That means shopping elsewhere, plain and simple.