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Conflicts with AJA and Sonnet Technologies SATA Products?
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David’s post is a typical example of why bizarre errors occur. I reread his first post, to make sure that I didn’t miss anything, and in this last post (just above this one) – he mentions that he has a Mark Of The Unicorn audio card in the system as well.
Whenever there are issues, it’s usually because of some conflict. I worked on a system for Sun Sports several months ago, that I personally built, and “all of a sudden” it stopped working. WE DID NOTHING they said, but the editor neglected to tell me that they loaded in a bunch of After Effects plug in’s recently, and it wasn’t until I got AJA support on the phone, where after much frustration, they helped me identify the plug in’s, and eliminate them, and everything started working (this killed an AJA I/O box from working).
We have seen posts like this, where guys can’t get their AJA I/O box to work, and then you find out “oh yea, I have 6 Firewire 400 drives chained on the firewire buss, along with the AJA I/O”.
With all of this said, I HAVE NO IDEA OF WHAT ELSE IN ON YOUR SYSTEM. Most systems are FCP edit systems, with a Kona 3, and a storage card (ATTO, Sonnet, CalDigit, Apple Fibre Channel, etc.). ANYTHING ELSE that you have on your system – be it a MOTU, a slow Firewire 400 card, and all kinds of other crap – can be causing ALL KINDS OF ISSUES, and it is impossible to diagnose these problems unless you report EVERYTHING THAT IS ON YOUR SYSTEM.
The Sonnet cards works without software – it just plugs in and works (as do many cards like the Firmtek SATA cards). If there were other drivers (like Highpoint drivers) in your system previously, this will cause issues. At this point, I have NO IDEA of what else was in your system. I can assure you that the Sonnet Card does not conflict with the AJA Kona LH, but there are always dozens of variables that make systems not work. If you innocently upgrade your MAC OS to something new that comes out, there are often issues with third party cards. Companies like AJA and Sonnet try to make it easy, but it becomes very difficult when you introduce these variables. You can’t test EVERYTHING for incompaitibility.
You said that you tried the drive array on a second dual 2 Gig MAC G5, and it still did not come up – do you mean the 500P that has all 5 drives at RAID 0, or the one with seperate drives ? You have 2 chassis, you can try both chassis.
Of course, with all of this said, you may have a bad SATA card, you may have a bad drive, you may have a bad 500P chassis. But if you introduce all these variables, it makes it very hard to diagnose these problems. If you have a 2 Gig G5 with NOTHING ELSE ON IT, you should be able to pop the X4P into this computer (and nothing else), and first see if you see it in the SYSTEM PROFILER, and then pop on a 500P chassis. Look at the LED’s on the X4P – do you see them light up?
I’m here – let me know.
Bob Zelin
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Thanks for the help, Bob. I’m going to check the lights. I haven’t done a ton of work since doing the Disk Warrior repair, but so far, it’s only gone offline once. I may try to isolate the media file that is causing the problem and see if it’s just a corrupt clip. I’ll update if that’s all that was happening, but Disk Warrior definitely helped. It said it recreated the directory and that at least allowed it to be on the desktop again.
David, as far as some of your other problems, they may be OS or FCP related. I have also had a few FCP spinning wheels. One thing that I know has happened over and over, when I get a spinning wheel, force-quitting will not work. I don’t know why this is, but I always have to restart the computer. Again, it’s been pretty solid, but when I have gotten the spinning wheel, a restart is necessary.
Thanks for the help on the RAID stuff. I’m hardly a pro at this…first time RAID guy here, though I’ve been FCP’ing since day 1.
Kevin
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Bob,
I truly appreciate you taking the time to help me with my issues, and I sincerely apologize if I confused or maddened you with one of my posts. If you read again what I said about the MOTU Card, I did say that I had removed it:
“I did have to remove a Mark of the Unicorn PCI 424 Audio Card from slot 2 because it drastically cut down on the speed of the SATA system”
However, I should have been clearer. A potential issue with the MOTU was something I was aware of from the outset and therefore one of the first things I checked out once I set up the system. I had read that slower PCI-X cards in slot 2 would drag down the speed of a faster card in slot 3 or vice-versa (Slot 4 being independent). Since MOTU tech support told me they were unaware of that issue and their rep could not offer information on the speed of the PCI 424 card, I had to test the system myself with the MOTU card in to see if it would indeed decrease transfer speed. So after my initial set up with just the Kona (Slot 4) and the X4P (Slot 3) I did introduce the MOTU card in Slot 2. As soon as I noted (via the Kona System Test) that the drive read/writes went down considerably, I removed the MOTU card from the set up. That was 6 weeks ago (four days after I got the system up and running) and the MOTU card has not been present since. As the start up issue and occasional “missing drives” had already manifested itself, I don’t think this test added to any issues, but I could be wrong. Again, I’m sorry if I wasn’t detailed enough about that… I’m certainly not trying to hide something, just wasn’t sure how much is appropriate to divulge in this type of forum.
I want you to know that I’ve been involved in multimedia and video work for 19 years – this is my livelihood and I take it very seriously. I have been through so many heart-wrenching conflict issues over those years – including Jazz drive problems (a long time ago), La Cie power supply issues – this not working with that, not working with this, etc. Issues have cost me weeks, if not months of anguish, and unfortunately, my experience is, most of the time manufacturer customer support can’t tell you (or are not willing to tell you) what’s conflicting or not, and it takes a lot of trial and error, gut wrenching time and effort – and, fortunately for me, people like you to truly help me out.
Consequently, as I said in my first post: “I have a fairly streamined Audio/Video only system” and I try my utmost to keep conflicting stuff off of it. However I do still use lots of tools – i.e mostly Apples multimedia products (Final Cut Pro/Motion/Compressor/Soundtrack/DVD Studio Pro/Logic Pro, etc) as well as the Adobe standard, Photoshop (no After Effects on this machine). I’ve tried to be Apple based or fairly “mainstream” for everything, but I guess there are plenty of other things that I occasionally use that could cause conflicts (DFT 55mm or Nattress filters? Sound Soap 2? Squeeze? – I don’t exactly know how much information is needed to narrow down potential solutions. I think the software and hardware I possess are the types of things everyone is using for professional purposes and is frequently referred to/reviewed at Creative Cow but I would be happy to go as deep into them as you might need me too (if you have the time).
Continuing with your last post, though – there are no PCI Firewire Cards or other cards in my system. I do occasionally need to attach firewire drives to the system in order to transfer P2 files captured on location, but once that data has been transferred to the G5 via the firewire 400 port on the front of the computer, the drives are normally disconnected.
As I said in my third post – I did connect some firewire drives to the front port of my G5 to test the copying of Final Cut Autosave files (saved to my system disk) that for some reason would not copy to my 5 x 500 media RAID in one of the Fusion 500P cabinets (infinite spinning color wheel). Those same files copied without problem to these firewire drives and the additional internal 250 Gb drive I have in the second internal drive port of the G5.
If there is one other piece of hardware I may need to tell you about (now that the MOTU PCI 424 card and 2408 rack mount it was originally connected to are no longer being used) – I do have a MOTU Traveller occasionally connected via the computer’s rear firewire 400 port. This is used for multitrack recording work we do within Logic Pro 7.2. I admit I have used that for a half day project, but didn’t consider it to be a source of any issues, but perhaps it might be and I should probably have stated that I use it from time to time. It does have a Firewire Audio Driver and that could be an issue.
Regarding testing the system on the other G5 (Dual 2GB Power PC) – there were no additional PCI cards, just the Tempo X4P and no other drives connected except a second internal 250 Gb SATA drive. On this computer System Profiler recognized the Tempo straight away (but I believe from Sonnet technical support that is because the 2.03 firmware I downloaded would have already “flashed the card?. I have now tried starting up the system with both enclosures independently, and with both connected together. None of the drives show up from a start up in any configuration, but do appear on restarts. I haven’t had an opportunity today to test files, as yet. That’s next.
I have just returned from purchasing 2 new eSATA cables and the new Tempo X4P I purchased was waiting on my door step, I am now going to try those components tonight (one by one) to see if anything changes. Just hoping that I can again work in Final Cut without the freezing. If not I will erase the most recent project that seems to be the main problem and begin loading in the media from scratch to see if that will stop the symptoms. I’ll just have to wait and see if any drives continue to disappear.
Again, I hope I did not upset you in any of my posts. If I did, it was certainly not my intention. I hope you can still offer me the benefit of your expertise and experience and I am more than happy to answer any questions and consider any options you might have.
Thank you Bob.
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What did I say other than, “works for me” and “my setup is different?”
Bob is the one who has your back.
Shane
Littlefrog Post
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David,
If your Final Cut Project is corrupt: 1st try creating a new project, then take the corrupt sequence, select all clips and copy, then paste into new sequence in the new project. I’ve used this in the past to successfully get rid of weird sequence problems. I recently had a client deliver me a Final Cut Project. They mentioned they could not get audio to capture on many of the reels– sure enough I had the same problem on my system with their project. I media managed the sequence–still no go, try XML –same problem. As a last resort I exported an edl, and then imported it into a new project–finally I was able to successfully recapture. EDL is the best way to be sure to go rid of any corruption in a sequence. Everything has been smooth since with the project.
Oh, I also run Protools LE (Firewire connect) on my system with no conflicts.
Hope your new cables work out for you.
Tony -
David –
you did not upset me at all, and I have been repremanded by management of this forum to try to use a different “tone” in my writing style, in the past. The only thing that upsets me is the fact that some people THINK that I am upset, simply by my choice of words. I am only trying to help you, and feel your pain and frustration. You read that this stuff should just plug in and work, and then it doesn’t.This story won’t help you, but it may try to show the insanity of our business. I have been using SATA from day 1, and was an original user of the old Sonnet Tempo X 8 port card. On this MAC G5, I have done numerous firmware updates, as time went on. When the Sonnet X4P came out, I could never get it to work in this particular MAC G5 that had the Tempo X. Even after numerous calls to Sonnet, no X4P would ever mount in this computer. I realized that I either reinstall the MAC OS from scratch (clean install), or just bite the bullet, and forget about this particular system and the X4P (which I did, and it is running to this day without the X4P).
I am not saying that you need to do a ground zero reinstall with your system – I just want to assure you that (as per your original question) – there is no conflict between the sonnet X4P and the AJA Kona LH card – they are a rock stable combination. However, there are countless things – everything from a MOTU driver, to a bad eSATA cable – that can be causing your issues. It’s difficult to discuss every combination on these forums, and as you try things, and more and more things don’t work – it becomes frustrating.
Sorry if I came off angry – I wasn’t.
bob Zelin
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Hi Bob,
No problem at all. I just didn’t want to be the cause of anyone’s frustration – particularly yourself who obviously takes a lot of time to help people with their difficulties, so I appreciate you helping me in any way you can, and feel free to say it in any way you like.To give you an update, I thought I’d cracked it last night. I inserted the new Tempo X4P card, my system recognized it immediately, and, for the first time ever on start up, the drives in my “media” enclosure (5 x 500gb raid 0) went through their one by one, (15 second each) mounting process and did appear on the desktop – without requiring a restart.
Unfortunately, the Final Cut project file I was having problems with before would still freeze Final Cut on opening, and require a hard power shut down as Final Cut would not force quit. I tried a brand new cable, made absolutely sure it was inserted securely at both ends, but still the same issue. I decided to erase (secure trash) the whole project and reload my P2 media, which I was intending to do this morning.
Early this morning, before doing that, I opened up a different project, just to make sure everything was good. I played lots of clips, and swept through numerous timelines. No problem at all. Had a little breakfast, came back to the computer, made one move of the mouse, and up comes the dreaded rainbow wheel, and no way out, without a shut down. On looking at the enclosure, the blue lights on bay 1, 3, 4, 5 were solidly lit, and, on the back, the light for Bay 2 was lit. The Tempo card for port 1 (which the media enclosure is connected to) was lit green and amber. On restarting the system again, I went to the same project again and spent several more minutes successfully accessing clips and timelines. Then making a move on one clip, the same thing occurred with the same results on the enclosure. I noted the specific clip where the freeze occurred. On restarting the system again, I played that same clip (which is obviously pulling the media from the same place across the drives) time and time again with no problem. I walked away from the computer, 5 minutes later still no problem – I moved the timeline to another location, walked away for about 10 minutes to write this message and just a second ago I walked back in, clicked play and there’s the rainbow wheel again. What’s a man to do?
It appears to me that something has to be timing out. And the fact that the same drive in Bay 2 keeps hanging(?) is cause for a new concern. Interestingly, this project / Final Cut problem has only begun showing itself since I got the replacement enclosures, and again only intermittently. I’m now going to put all of the media drives from this enclosure into the second enclosure, using the new tempo card and the new cable and see what happens on start up and when I play through this project. I’d be happy for any input you have and really appreciate your time.
Thanks and regards,
David
smallisland@earthlink.net -
you are in a difficult situation, as you have media on your drives. Drive bay 2 should not “hang up”. It’s easy for me, and Sonnet support to say – “unstripe your drives, reinit them, and try them one at a time – because it’s not our project, and not our labor – but (Even though I have had luck with never seeing a bad SATA drive) – you certainly could have a bad drive, or a bad drive enclosure.
I am not following if this is the 500P with the 5 drives stripped RAID 0, or if this is the array with the seperate drives in them. If it is the 500P with the 5 drives stripped RAID 0, I don’t care how corrupt your media is – drive bay 2 should not “hang up” by itself. At this point – since you have the luxury of owning two of these 500P enclosures, I would swap out all the drives and carriers into the other array box, to see if it still hangs up. If it does not – you have a problem with the 500P. If it STILL HANGS UP – you COULD have a bad drive, or a failing drive. The next step (gulp !) would be to blow away all the material on this array, and reinit (erase) using Apple Disk Utility, and do some quick tests with just drive # 2, to see if it hangs up. Of course, this is easy for me to say -, but I realize what a nightmare this will be if you have a failing drive.
bob Zelin
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you DO have Energy Saver turned off, don’t you (in the System Preferences window in OS-X) – and you have MADE SURE that “put drives to sleep whenever possible” is not checked in this window
Am I correct about this !!!!!!!
Bob Zelin
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Yes, absolutely. Have all energy saver sleep settings set to never and “put the hard disk to sleep” is not checked. And, I am working with the enclosure with the 5 x 500 drives striped together as Raid 0. (The other enclosure and wiring is not connected at the moment)
Weirdest thing just happened, though… perhaps another clue?…
I decided before changing out all the drives into my second enclosure, I would simply swap the position of the drives between bay 2 and 3 in this first enclosure, thinking maybe it was a bay 2 issue, not the specific drive. Since then I have had 1 freeze in Final Cut but this time none of the blue lights displayed on the front and all the lights in the back remained lit. Also, the X4P card only had the green light lit on it, not the busy amber light. Since restarting again, I have spent approximately an hour trying to get Final Cut to freeze up. Everything was working perfectly. But then the moment I read your last message, I thought I would go to system preferences/energy saver just to confirm nothing had changed from my last settings.
As soon as I clicked back from system preferences to Final Cut, without even touching a clip or performing a keyboard stroke, up came the rainbow wheel, and froze again. There are no blue lights on the enclosure, there are 5 blue lights lit up on the back, the light next to the eSATA cable is unlit and the green and amber light on the X4P are lit. This is so weird, so erratic.
I’ve considered it being a power issue so I’ve even instaled brand new Tripp-Lite 1000VA /500W Battery Back-up UPS Systems which condition and monitor the power on a small LCD – and there’s been nothing to suggest that the power is changing erratically.
I think I will now try putting the drives in the other cabinet. If that doesn’t work, I will run the same project which is backed up to the 2 x 500 Raid 0 in the 2nd enclosure. If I get the same problems running from that set up, it should prove that it’s not a drive issue with the 5 x 500’s, correct?
Then I will retrash Final Cut preferences again, if that doesn’t work, I’ll reload Final Cut, if that doesn’t work, I’ll load a brand new system on the G5 and start reloading software from scratch.
Any interim suggestions?
Thanks again for sticking with me, Bob.
David
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