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Commercial Bid itemization- How much detail to give
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[walter biscardi] “Ok, but if we do end up needing some of these things later or your brother makes the shoot run over, the rates will be double because they will no longer be part of the package but ala carte.””
Do you state that in the contract also?
Thanks!
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Thanks for all the great responses.
A couple of replies…
Specific to Todd’s point on not being being the most expensive, that’s a tricky one here in NYC. My brother who works for a custom house builder in the Thousand Islands utilizes that strategy – “we’re not the cheapest, but we’re the best.” That works for them because they have very little competition on their scale. In our situation, and similar to my friend Richard’s production company, there way too much competition here in NYC to be able to do that at our size. There’s always someone willing to do it cheaper. Simple supply and demand. .
To Mark’s point on my friend not bidding accurately in the first place, I would disagree. There’s many ways to “skin the cat” on the details of a project to affect the pricing before, and sometimes during – without necessarily jeopardizing the aesthetic. You can make the same commercial for a range of prices. Sure, a $10,000 spot isn’t going to compare to a $100,000 spot, but its still possible to do both. Whenever we are presented an RFP or creative boards for a bid, we always think of a “Good, Better and Best” approach to accomplishing the creative. Our next step (which is sometimes wrought with it’s own issues) is to ask the agency or client what their budget is – which then helps us to dial in which approach we’ll take in our bid. And yes, we always try to up-sell where we think the spot would benefit. but again, this is just our approach.
Specific to my friend Richard’s situation, I will be very curious to hear how the project progresses with this other production company.
Tom
24fps Productions
New York City -
[Tom Strodel] “Al at the agency acknowledged that the copywriter there had given his high range number to the other production company with the instructions: “you need to beat this.” Apparently, she knew someone at this company, and wanted very much to work with them. Adding insult to injury, Al then said, “That’s what everybody does. They needed some number to go by””
Normal operating procedure for most agencies and even larger corporations. Go to a known production entity that can do the work, then hand over the budget to another production company they would prefer to work with for whatever reason and ask them to match or beat the price.
We’ve run into that so many times through the years and will continue to run into that in the future.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative MediaCraft and Career Advice & Training from real Working Creative Professionals
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For producing industrials I give a package price, no line item. They either like it or go with someone else. I spend more on intent and scope of work than a line item budget, that is usually where clients get “confused” that their $10k industrial does not look like a $250k commercial. People in other lines of work really do not know how much it costs to make something look like a movie or TV show, but that’s what they want, but affordable! (cheap).
I don’t work for ad agencies, so I don’t use their forms or procedures for line itemizing everthing, which is BS anyway because they always want more than they pay for!
If I’m asked for a lot of detail I charge a fee to do the clients work for them as I’m now working as a production manager and not a producer, they will obviously shop the entire job around and go with the lowest bidder on each segment. If I get a decent day rate for putting a budget together for them, fine otherwise I pass.
As usual this “business” depends upon whom you call and how desperate people are at the moment. Having worked in NYC, California and now Arizona, I have never seen any aspect of this industry as well organized as attorneys, physicians or plumbers.
Malcolm
http://www.malcolmproductions.com -
[Malcolm Matusky] “If I’m asked for a lot of detail I charge a fee to do the clients work for them as I’m now working as a production manager and not a producer, they will obviously shop the entire job around and go with the lowest bidder on each segment. If I get a decent day rate for putting a budget together for them, fine otherwise I pass.”
That part I don’t understand. I always have to work out a full budget before I place a bid whether I show them the work or not. I don’t see any reason to charge a client to show them the work I did to come up with the budget.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative MediaCraft and Career Advice & Training from real Working Creative Professionals
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[walter biscardi] “I don’t see any reason to charge a client to show them the work I did to come up with the budget.”
Unless the client simply shared that budget with another producer, and had no intention of hiring you.
All that said, how would you all react if a potential client sent you, unasked for, another production company’s budget, in the context of a bidding situation?
Bob C
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That is exactly what has happened to me. That’s why I no longer do it.
Malcolm
http://www.malcolmproductions.com
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