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Collaborate instead of dictate
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[Chris Blair] “Nick…No offense, but I’ve been doing this for 25 years”
Chris-
“It’s not you, it’s them” was tongue in cheek and I’ve been doing it for 35 years — hence my disdain for the know-it-all agency types. That’s not to say that non-agency clients can’t be the same, just that’s where I’ve seen the most of it.I really doubt that there is an answer to this situation other than bringing it up again and again with your clients. Give them some specific examples of projects where your input has had a very positive outcome on the final product. Show them things you’ve done completely on your own. Problem is some may see this as threatening. They may worry that if their client is in the meetings the client or the boss may get the idea that the ones who brought you in are extraneous to the process. I believe that almost all of us here are ethical (and smart) enough to not let something like that happen, but that doesn’t keep them from fearing that it might.
Bottom line, this is just one more of the numerous conundrums which are part of the human dynamics of small business.
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I think linear editing helped me ignore or get use to these varying dynamics. 20 years ago, we as editors did indeed sometimes have to say yes, even when the answer was no. I mean, it’s not like we could really make a timing change in minute one of a 60 minute show and still meet the deadline 2 hours away. There is an art to oppeasing and I believe I learned in in those days of being a linear editor.
I can’t tell you how many times folks ask for one thing and I absolutly understand it but disagree with. Instead of saying that, I’ll respond with a “oh wow. So your saying do this and that (all my ideas now placed as theirs) and then the show is tight and we’re done? Man that’s why you get the big bucks.” Do you know hom many times I’ve had that disagreed with? None. ever. It’s always the same response. A glow of pride as they sit back and stretch feeling like the man. That’s my job. I make the best product possible while making the client feel they did. I enjoy it. If I didn’t, I just be a producer.
lol
The rougher the client, the more I like it. I get a kick out of folks all like “ooooh you have so and so today!? duuude he’s a tirant good luck with that.” Then they watch us walk out of the suite 12 hours later huggin’ and high fivin’. That’s the gig.
and man I love it. In a nutshell. I admit to dictating. However, all of my clients would tell you I’m the best collaborator in town. I’m not. I’m the best dictator around. I simply make my ideas their ideas and execute em before they realize what happened.
I could be a plotician if I clipped on a tie and babbled stuff I knew nothing about.
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When you’re creative, and you know the quality of your work, and you’re hired by a company BECAUSE of the quality and caliber of your work, and then they want you to do anything ‘but’ your work, it’s always frustrating. And it will never end.
On the list of things that I do very well is writing. I’m on a project right now that will probably be beaten, bloodied, torn apart and reconstructed into some meaningless pile of prattle by director and committees before it sees daylight. I would like my product to be a genuine representation of my work. Ain’t gonna happen.
I have a shirt that says, “Let it go.” That should become my uniform. It doesn’t serve us to get our tights all in a wad over the inevitable. We would be better served to expect this kind of behavior and treatment, and then be pleasantly surprised when they let us do what they hired us to do. Of course, the reason I have the shirt is that I haven’t yet learned to take my own advice. And what am I really doing, anyway? In rebuffing their dictums, I’m only passively trying to control the situation. That and H. pylori will get a person nothing but an ulcer.
Patricia Shanks
Patricia Shanks Voice Studio
http://www.studioshanks.biz -
Well, before we get too wrapped up in how much MORE we all “get it” than our stupid clients – I’ll just note that yeah, while it’s easy to manipulate them to get them to do what we want them to do – that too is all about us feeding our own egos in the end.
In order to really serve the clients needs – whether they understand them or not – how about stopping the practice to treating them like children?
For me, a successful client interaction is when that client, no matter how skilled or lame – experienced or not – leaves the studio knowing MORE about how to be good at THEIR job then they did when they came in. And yep, not all of them will “get it” – for many it will go right over their heads – but that’s not my issue. My issue is doing my best to make them better at what they’re trying to do.
I figure if I can learn how to do that. I’ll NEVER starve.
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Bill Davis: Well, before we get too wrapped up in how much MORE we all “get it” than our stupid clients – while it’s easy to manipulate them to get them to do what we want them to do – that too is all about us feeding our own egos in the end.
I don’t think anybody said or even implied any of their clients were stupid. In fact, I think many of the clients that are reluctant to collaborate are some of the smartest. And I don’t try to manipulate clients. I try to help them tell their story in a better way based on 25 years experience as a writer, producer and director.
And as hard as it might be to believe, for me at least, it’s NOT about feeding my ego. I want our clients to be successful. I want their video or TV commercial or marketing brochure to engage it’s audience and persuade them to contact the company. I get satisfaction from helping people, not from getting credit or awards or write ups in trade journals.
Just one example of many. We worked with an agency a few years ago on a campaign. They did collaborate with us, even including us in their concepting meetings. During the course of this, I came across an idea that was inspired by a blog from employees that worked in the industry we were promoting. I wrote up a short proposal and even wrote a :30 spot (I spent many years as a writer/producer). The agency pitched that idea (along with 2 of theirs) to the client. The client loved my idea, especially the copy. The ad was produced almost exactly as pitched. The campaign was so successful a series of TV ads, billboards, newspaper ads, trade journal ads were spawned from it. It won Addys. The agency took all the credit. Never once was I given credit for the creative portion of this idea. But you know what, it really didn’t bother me because the whole point of what we do is to help clients market their products and this campaign did that.
The agency knew who’s idea it was and they continue to use us and continue to ask us to contribute to their planning and concepting sessions. The spend a ton of money with us. So wanting our clients to collaborate with us is not about massaging my (or anyone else’s) ego in our company.
We listen to our clients and always remember that they know their industry and know what works in it. But we also try to get them to realize we know OUR industry and what works in it. Marry the two and you can create successful marketing.
I’d like to believe there are many other company’s out there who feel the same way.
Chris Blair
Magnetic Image, Inc.
Evansville, IN
http://www.videomi.com -
I agree that there are clients who appreciate collaboration and those who don’t. I think it is probably more personality that leads to this.
We are working more and more toward the “front” of the project. Some clients have worked with us and some still give us finished scripts that may or may not work (in our opinion).
Hey. We are in a recession! We appreciate all projects, and we will try to take our skills and apply them to the most mediocre scripts, following the client’s lead, but it is certainly challenging.
It is a rare line of copy that I would say was perfect….there is always another way to say something. Same with editing or design….there is always another way. What is the way that will still bring a degree of satisfaction in what you are doing, and still make you some money in the end? It might not be the sweet spot, but move on to the next project that might bring you closer to the “front” of it.
And let clients know that is where you want to be….emphasize collaborations you have had in the past. Showcase them on your Web site.
And remeber that it takes all kinds!
Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media Inc.
Tilt Media Inc. -
I think one of the questions comes down to: “WHY”, why do companies and people behave this way?
We have had many experiences like your company. I believe its psychological. Most companies have a marketing department. In my experience the marketing department or the different people in it mostly have their own agenda and not always keeping the companies best interest in mind.
They are there to make a career, or come up with the best ideas. I have felt in the past that some persons actually feel threatened by my presence as a marketer/producer.They act as if they are the once that should do the job because thats why they are there. maybe they feel the boss will think, why do I need you if the Production company can actually do the whole job.
Their job is to come up with the marketing ideas and have a production company execute them (at least they think so). This way they can take the credit and secure their job.
Thing is, its so great when a person like this works together with the production company from the start. But unfortunately many of these persons are under qualified.I do not have these problems when I deal directly with the Boss or Director or even better the owner.
But I recently presented a great idea to the director of a company and he loved it, when he called his marketing manager in, the mareting manager started finding all kinds of negative sides to the campaign I presented. Never the less the director loved my ideas so no loss there, the M. Manager really felt, why are we bringing in this guy… are my ideas not good enough etc etc.
So I believe that although our experiences are not exactly the same, the psychology behind the behavior might be related.
Understanding why they act this way helps in how to approach them or deal with them, It helped me in many ways.Adeeb Oberoi
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Reminds me of a scene in the movie “Office Space” when the HR henchmen are interviewing all the middle managers looking for whom to cut, and they get to the middle manager who “middles” between the sales people and the engineers of the company. I won’t try to repeat the scene here, rent the movie or you tube it. But it often boils down to a need for the client people to each put their individual “stank” on it.
Like Grinner, I’ve done my share of zero-frame trims and removals of deliberately placed “give-away” items placed there so the customer can feel like they made a contribution. I have had some clients that came in and wanted to dictate every shot to the frame, but after one session, invariably, they say: I know you know what you’re doing, here’s the notes, go crazy and call me when you have a rough cut to show”. I like to think that happens because I’m good, but also, I educate in little ways along the way little one-liner bits that put what I’m doing into a context that shows I’m applying actual theory and industry conventions to the work… that I have a REASON for everything I do. When they leave the suite, they’ve been subtly educated in a way that makes them sound good to the boss as they defend or explain why we did some particular thing in that way. And so we build up some trust.
If anything, I now have too MUCH of a good thing, in that I get so much autonomy on some jobs that are ill-defined, I’m not sure I’ve done what they want but I can’t get them to come review anything until a master is ready to dub. If I screw up, it then means a lot of re-do work. Fingers crossed, nothing catastrophic yet.
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