Cheap Backup Camera ?

[Craig Alan]

Tape based cams give you an advantage in terms of reliable archiving. But a big disadvantage in terms of work flow. Flash drive storage is a likely future but are still quite expensive. Used is risky for a tape based cam. The HV30s were used quite a bit for B roll cams on some professional productions where a small cam was needed. SLRs take beautiful images due to their bigger chips but the form factor is not the best for video. The two are beginning to merge. Ideally you have the ergonomics of a camcorder and the larger chips of SLR.

OSX 10.5.8; MacBookPro4,1 Intel Core 2 Duo 2.5 GHz MacPro4,1 2.66GHz 8 core 12gigs of ram. GPU: Nvidia Geoforce GT120 with Vram 512. OS X 10.6.x; Camcorders: Sony Z7U, Canon HV30/40, Sony vx2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Matthew Jeschke]

Yeah, I’m a computer engineer for the past 10 years. Unfortunately, I have had trouble finding work recently. So this is what I’m doing in the mean time. I create engineering-ish tutorials to help people save money by completing their own repairs.

I think flash technology is too slow as well as hard drives. To get the bandwidth necessary for 1080p or higher requires incredible speed which is very costly in those technologies. My biggest issue with my little handy-cam is it uses a compression algorithm that dumbs down the quality substantially so it can write to it’s hard drive.

Tape offers a very high and constant bandwidth pretty well determined by how fast you can digitize the image and roll the tape. I think once faster flash alternatives become available a lot of this camera technology will dramatically drop in price and image quality will skyrocket.

[Al Bergstein]

I think you ought to work on your script before worrying about your cameras. Your knowledge of cameras and the current technology needs serious research. You seem to be getting the cart before the horse. Good luck to you.

Alf

[Danny Grizzle]

I recently purchased a Sony DSC-HX9V for $300, and I am smitten. So much so I have been using it all week as my only camera for the birth of a grandson, even though I have 5D Mk II, 60D, and T3i at my fingertips.

You will need a 32GB Class 10 SD card ($40) and spare batteries (amazon has a 3rd party bundle with 2 batteries and a charger for $12). I also got a Jobi Gorillapod Video Tripod for under $18, and it is very cool.

Here’s the best trick with this camera: get a Giottos mini ball head, the smallest one they make, only $12. You also need a Rode Micro Boom Pole, maybe $79. Now you have a camera mounted on the end of an audio boom pole, much like how a microphone would normally be positioned.

For about $400, you have an HD camera system that will do 1080p at up to 60fps(!), and it will get shots that are impossible with normal cameras. I have found this little rig will do extraordinary things documenting men working, because you can get angles and into positions that would interfere with a larger rig, or be dangerous. Not only that, but the camera audio can be very good also, thanks to getting the camera’s on board mics in close to the action.

Mounting the camera on a mic boom pole allows shots that look identical to conventional crane or jib work. You can fly the camera like a Steadicam also, either on the boom pole or handheld.

The video is so good, this may become your main camera for the mechanic productions.

The HX9V lens is great, 24-300mm equivalent. Full time auto focus, even while recording. A fantastic optical image stabilizer makes all this handheld work possible. Finally, the HDMI output is live during recording, making monitoring possible.

I like it so much, I have ordered a SmallHD DP4 EVF/monitor, plus some RAM brand mounting hardware to affix the monitor to the Rode boom. Actually, I am probably going to upgrade my boom to the Rode full 10′ model, to get higher crane type shots.

You should research this further by searching for the HX9V on YouTube and Vimeo. I own tons of equipment, but this little camera is the best bang for the buck I have ever purchased.

[Matthew Jeschke]

Hey thanks so much for the tips.

I was certain some of this low end stuff would be pretty decent. I know these big companies stamp out the same hardware for a LOT of their products even the lower end ones. Then just have different firmware and buttons on the cheaper products.

I just wanted confirmation from somebody who actually tried one of the cheaper cameras 🙂

Thanks!!!!

[Danny Grizzle]

I’m even more jazzed about the Sony HX9V today than I was yesterday.

Go to Amazon.com and search for “pico dolly”. Perfect inexpensive tabletop dolly for the HX9V – in fact, the HX9V is featured in many of the promo videos.

I just bought the $99 Pico Dolly kit, which includes a flex arm and a carry bag. Cool.

BTW – I also purchased a Cinemover this morning from moveyourcamera.com. These are two different animals. The Pico Dolly is tiny and cool, but looks limited to smooth counter tops. A major plus is the Pico Dolly can be set to track on a radius, an added dimension similar to curved dolly track.

The Cinemover looks like a poor man’s Kessler Shuttlepod, able to use improvised track that can be virtually anything that is smooth and straight with parallel sides, like a rail or a piece of lumber. Cinemover has the ability to use elevated track in rough terrain with dolly travel limited only by the length of improv rail you can find. I’m thinking a 12′ board would easy to get — a major increase over typical 3′ slider limits, all at very low cost. You could run the thing beneath a car in your automotive production. I’ve seen neat shots with guys running a dolly move over things like a flowing stream, an impossible shot with a conventional dolly but easy considering propping up a board to create a bridge.

Both Pico Dolly and CineMover can carry cameras up to DSLR size.

The CineMover costs about $80.

[Matthew Jeschke]

That’s way too cool!

I’m on the cusp of buying a hx9v! My buddy has a Go Pro for compact shots and easy stowing but honestly it’s picture is less than desirable especially in low light.

I can pickup the hx9v for less than a go pro even! And I LOVE the rigs…

I just bout a steady cam which is in the mail. Then I also have plans to make this Crane / Jib.

https://www.youtube.com/thefrugalfilmmaker#p/search/0/t2_Ye6dP5Lw

He also has a great website with how to make a bunch of your own equipment. Including a really cheap dolly. But I LOVE that cine cam! wow…

[Danny Grizzle]

I also have a Stedicam Merlin with Arm and Vest, but frankly I don’t know that I would buy it again given what I am doing with the HX9V. I did purchase a pistol grip by Barska at Amazon for $12 – highly recommended. Afterwards, I found a video review of this exact rig on cheesycam.com, and it is accurate about the tripod screw being a bit too long. However, you don’t have to grind the metal screw shorter as they suggest. You can fix the issue by adding a shim using a few layers of gaff tape or a single layer of any other adhesive pad that can be cut to fit the camera stage and basically make it a tiny bit taller.

OTOH, the Jobi Gorrilapod Video Tripod achieve the same end result by simply gripping all three legs as a handle, though the Barska is a much nicer pistol grip and the rubberized finish is very nice to the touch. Considering the low cost, I recommend purchasing them both.

One further thing I did was to purchase a Zacuto Z-finder glue on frame so that I could mount my existing Z-finder to the HX9V. I had an older Z-finder; I don’t know if the latst version still offers a glue on option. But the size and fit is perfect. The finder costs more than the camera, and I wouldn’t have done this except I already had the finder, so cost to me was only $11 for an extra glue on mount. But if you are working outside in bright sunlight a lot, this is an option. Frankly, shooting indoors, I don’t use the Z-finder. You can get great Steadicam like shots using only the Barska grip, and with a camera this featherweight, all the things you read online about the value of multiple points of contact with your body are really overrated.

Don’t get me wrong, the HX9V is not perfect. Lack of manual control can be an issue, but not a terrible problem.

FYI – my next camera is going to be a Sony NEX-7, but *not* as a replacement for the HX9V. It might be easy to think the NEX-5n or NEX-7 are an upgrade, but for me the HX9V has earned a place in my package, and knowing what I know about it, I would make the purchase again instantly even if I already had an NEX camera.

My motivation on the NEX-7 is large sensor, full manual control, intercutting with my 5D Mk II. But the big attraction is I have 10 Canon FD lenses that have been in mothballs for a decade, and the NEX will put these back into service.

I actually view the small sensor of the HX9V as an asset, because large sensor shallow DOF and lack of auto focus is a real dangerous combination on a handheld camera being used for Steadicam type work.DSLRs are a challenge to begin with, and it is easy to push them beyond the limits of the most skilled operator. I’d rathe have sharp footage and interesting shots than to ruin my reputation with constant failure on overreaching, always soft and even horribly out of focus camera work. Shallow depth of field is great, but not if you can’t control it.

The HX9V is a really sweet camera. For $300, you can’t go wrong.

[Danny Grizzle]

BTW – I have a couple of GoPro cameras, and they are really a specialty item, far removed from anything you could use for principle photography.

Which brings up the limitations of the HX9V again. Don’t expect this to be a pro camera because it is not. It is a consumer point and shoot that you can trick into doing professional work. Lack of manual control is annoying, but doubly annoying is that exposure compensation resets to 0 every time the camera powers down, which is frequent due to aggressive automatic battery management. And the camera does tend to overexpose video, so I generally try to keep the EV compensation set to -2/3 stop. You have to keep on top of this while shooting, or you will get messed up footage that will cause problems in post and not intercut well.

The HX9V lens is worlds better than GoPro. But considering handheld is best done at wide angles, I am careful about composition, especially on tight shots, to keep heads away from the edge of the frame when at the widest focal length. Nobody appreciates having their head stretched out double width by a wide angle lens.

The HX9V’s amateur focus and menus and all the gratuitous onscreen Japanese interface clutter like scene modes is annoying, but certainly not a deal killer. This little camera will deliver great video footage.

[Matthew Jeschke]

I’ve got to stop talking to you lol

I’m starting to buy these things… I just bought the hx9v. It will be perfect as I have to get some video while on business travel. We’re launching an ATV product line and I need to film how to install the parts while I’m at the manufacturers shop.

Next, I almost bought the pistol grip mount. However, I have some of those Gorrilapod grip mount tripods. I found an off brand for $2 / each on ebay 🙂 So I ordered a couple of them. They are invaluable.

I’ll probably still build a jib crane like they have on frugal film maker cause I’ll need some really great shots of the engine bay while I’m filming my AC rebuild manual.

I think Sony just decided to come after me… lol

I LOVE that Nex-7 as well. I’ve been watching the NEX-VG10 but it isn’t quite what I’m looking for yet, doesn’t do 1080/60p and I’m not sure it’ll accept my canon lenses.

I also have a fair amount of money invested in canon lenses I’d love to reuse for film. Does the NEX-7 do autofocus while in video mode? Honestly I’d probably use it very little, however, It’s nice to know it’s there just in case.

Anyways, thanks much for the help! I saved you as a friend on here… Will let you know how my videos progress 🙂