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Changing the Standard
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[Franklin McMahon] said: “The creative people who have this desire become very successful, it does not even depend on skills often, its tenacity and drive.”
to which [Chris Blair] replied: “I just don’t believe this is true, even in this country. You cannot succeed ONLY on desire, tenacity and drive. You MUST have skills and abilities that match. You can possess those skills and abilities… or you can hire them out, but you cannot achieve high levels of success without them. That’s like a restaurant who has great marketing and advertising, a cool space, and funky and friendly waiters…but their food sucks. You won’t be eating there long based on their desire and tenacity at getting you in the door if that food continues to suck.”
Chris,
It is true. And there are plenty of restaurants that have succeeded with terrible food but a great schtick and ambiance. There’s a restaurant here in Paso Robles that is downright terrible. They are even truthful in their marketing and call it Big Bubba’s Bad B-B-Q. All of the locals even joke that “at least they’re truthful” and that “they don’t mean ‘bad’ as in good, but simply bad.”
The place is almost nearly always packed. Why? The food? No, the fact that they have sawdust on the floor, serve huge drinks in iced plastic cups that are so ugly that I wonder why anyone would want to take them home (but they do), and the topper is their mechanical bull. It runs almost non-stop.
And success is ALMOST NEVER based solely on talent. Some of the most talented musicians and songwriters that I have ever heard are so obscure that few would know them if I named them.
I once heard a music promoter friend of mine joke that one of Creedence Clearwater’s biggest songs had been pushed by the label’s A&R and promotions people just to prove that rock n roll didn’t have to be three chords, thank you — the one they pushed had only two.
Success is more often based on tenacity and desire than it is on talent. The University of Michigan a long time ago did a study on success and examined their alumni to see what factors played in those that succeeded. They concluded that attitude and enthusiasm were far more valuable and contributed far more directly to success than did things like intelligence and ability and talent.
We had a guy in our company who was one of the smartest people that I had ever met. In three years he did little to nothing. He accomplished little, even though he had mountains of talent, knowledge and ability. We finally got rid of him to hire Abraham — who had none of his predecessor’s knowledge or ability. But what Abraham did have is drive and ambition. In half the time of his predecessor’s tenure here, Abraham has accomplished 10 times more, at least. It may even be double that estimate.
Our Power of Artistic Passion issue of Creative COW Magazine examined this phenomenon.
Yes, it is indeed BEST to have both drive and talent but if I have to make due with only one, give me the drive, every time. I have met far too many talented people who have accomplished nothing and are going nowhere.
Your mileage may vary,
Best regards,
Ron Lindeboom
Creativity is a type of learning process where the teacher and pupil are located in the same individual.
Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
– Antoine de Saint Exupéry -
Drive can overcome many things. I’ve toured the world as a musician and now hold a VERY well paying staff job as an editor.
I HAVE NO TALENT AT ALL!
But I will work harder than 8 out of 10 people.
With drive/desire you can learn what you need to know and fake the rest. I wish i was talented, but then again I’ve known so many talented musicians and artists that just waste it aways because they lack the motivation to do anything.
Scott Cumbo
Editor
Broadway Video, NYC -
“Donald Trump no longer focuses on 3 story condo buildings. He’s moved on. He has a unique thirst to take it to the next level, ready or not. The creative people who have this desire become very successful, it does not even depend on skills often, its tenacity and drive.”
Boy you know you are in trouble when you start citing “comb over” as a good business model.
He was given everything by his father, has gone completely broke twice, gotten government bailouts both times, and is about to go into the sinkhole again. This time I hope they finally let him get what he deserves, complete bankruptcy. Let’s start bailing out the hard working people who deserve it, not egomaniacal blowhards.Dual 2.5 G5, IO, Kona LH, IO, Medea Raid, UL4D, NVidia 6800, 4Gig RAM
Octocore 8 GB Ram, Radeon card, MBP, MXO
Windows Vista Adobe Studio CS4, Vegas 8.0, Lightwave 9.3, Sound Forge 9, Acid Pro 7, Continuum 5, Boris Red 4, Combustion 2008, Sapphire Effects -
Ron Lindeboom There’s a restaurant here in Paso Robles that is downright terrible. They are even truthful in their marketing and call it Big Bubba’s Bad B-B-Q.
Well that must be a California thing, because that would NEVER happen here in the midwest. Large chains come and go like the wind in our part of the country. Don Pablo’s has consistently been rated the best Mexican chain restaurant in the U.S. by the industry’s own trade mags. They came to Evansville and built a very cool restuarant. My family ate there many times and the food was outstanding…but the service was terrible. In fact anyone you talked to had the same experiences…great food, ungodly service.
They lasted about a year. That was with the backing of a national advertising campaign that was clever and highly produced.
Ron Lindeboom And success is ALMOST NEVER based solely on talent. Some of the most talented musicians and songwriters that I have ever heard are so obscure that few would know them if I named them.
Just to be clear…I pointed out that I agreed with the premise of Franklin’s post. And I didn’t say success was based SOLELY on talent. What I said was you couldn’t have one without the other.
I’ve met and worked with quite a few high profile artists (actors and musicians) in my 25 years in this business. And the things that stand out about almost all of them is:
1. They’re good people. Cordial, thoughtful, and unbelieveably professional in everything they do…even when asked to do arguably stupid things.
2. They’re incredibly talented…in fact, they make what they do look positively easy. But they also work incredibly hard and have unending energy, passion and determination.
Now certainly there are some oddballs and outright pricks out there in the entertainment world and other professions. And there are certainly people with MORE talent than some of these folks who’ve achieved next to nothing, but to suggest that people achieving at the highest level in this or any profession don’t possess an incredible amount of talent is unfair.
Hard work and enthusiasm and drive and tenacity pay off in knowledge and experience. These people achieve not only because they work hard, but that hard work makes them good at what they do.
It’s like saying Kobe Bryant or Lebron James are good only because they’re talented or only because they work hard. It’s both! But they also are gifted physically and mentally well beyond other athletes.
In the regular working man’s world, I think you’ve gotta have all three of those to achieve at a very high level.
We’ve used some freelancers over the years that I’ve considered sort of our “go to” guys. But as we’ve improved and the quality of our work has gotten better, I’ve become frustrated with them. They’re still incredibly hard-working and dependable to a fault. But they don’t bring that extra little “spark” to projects that I think is necessary to take us to the next level. So in getting back to the original post…if the freelancer wants to expand his client base while firing one of his “go to” clients…he better be prepared to wratchet up his skills and abilities. He can do that partly through hard work and tenacity and drive. But just like how I’ve become frustrated with out freelancers…if this guy doesn’t have that little something extra that a client is looking for…he won’t get hired.
So in the end…I agree with both you and Franklin…but I don’t think you achieve at a high-level without both hard work and talent. What’s the old saying, “the harder I work the smarter I get?” That’s probably true, but if you were a dope to start with, you’ll still lag behind the “smart guy.”
I’ve told people for years that I achieve because I work harder than almost anybody I know. But you know what…I think I have some innate skills that help tremendously…. things like having a good eye for framing, a good ear for music and dialogue, a good feel for the rhythym and timing of edits etc. Some of it you can learn, some you can’t.
But good discussion of what it takes to succeed! It’s what I like about the Cow!
Chris Blair
Magnetic Image, Inc.
Evansville, IN
http://www.videomi.com -
[Chris Blair] “Well that must be a California thing, because that would NEVER happen here in the midwest.”
One thing I have learned about human nature, Chris, is that it is boringly consistent. I have traveled a lot in my days and have known people from disparate cultures in a wide range of areas. From this, I have deduced that the old saying that the follies and frailies of man are held in common is quite true.
While I would agree with you that it is a rare thing for a crappy restaurant to succeed — it is rare here, too (even in California where we are all nuts and have our heads where the sun doesn’t shine to escape the unrelenting scorch) — the point was that determination is more important in some cases (and I would argue, most) than talent.
I have seen talent go unrewarded many times. I have seen dedication take the top of the mountain without much talent to back it up.
That was the point.
And to make it clear, I trump your 25 years in business by a decade and a half, so if we are going to get into experiential comparisons, I have been at it far longer and in far bigger markets with much more focused competition. So if you would like to turn this into a boy’s gym wanker contest, then let’s have at it.
I will stand by what I said: talent alone is NOT going to build a successful business. Sometimes, dedication wins without much talent to back it.
Life isn’t fair.
Go figure…
[Chris Blair] “Hard work and enthusiasm and drive and tenacity pay off in knowledge and experience. These people achieve not only because they work hard, but that hard work makes them good at what they do.”
I wish it were that simple. Working hard at your talent is also NOT the answer. I know many musicians that are some of the finest in the world, some that play rock even though they are qualified to play in a symphony orchestra if they so chose. They are skilled. They know their craft. They have honed their talent.
BUT…
They are almost all, terrible marketers and hate to sell themselves. They try to let their talent be their “calling card.”
Most have failed.
Why?
Talent is NOT enough. The best reel in the world won’t get you seen if you do not push it into people’s faces…often. Oh, and then oftener still.
Persistence is more important than talent. That is a law of business. I have seen many artists in this industry fail, as I have been building these kinds of media professionals communities for about 15 years now. (14 years of web-based ones, and a year of local user groups before that.)
If I had $10 for each one that I have seen fail in that time, I could retire.
What’s the lesson that I have learned in it all? It is contained in the Power of Artistic Passion issue of the magazine. Does it have all of the answers? No. But when you are fighting for your business life and survival in today’s marketplace, some answers are better than the lack of answers that some businesses seem to be trying to fight with.
But that’s just my opinion. You are free to yours.
Best regards,
Ron Lindeboom
Creativity is a type of learning process where the teacher and pupil are located in the same individual.
Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
– Antoine de Saint Exupéry -
[Scott Cumbo] “I HAVE NO TALENT AT ALL!”
I would bet money that this is simply an over-simplification of the facts and is hardly true, if at all.
I know people that have ten- or twenty-times my talent and in comparison to them, I may have little to no talent, at all. But I also remember the story of the tortoise and the hare and the lesson drawn from it.
The hare had all the natural innate talent that being a hare could give him. But as you said, and I have also found to be quite true, there is a tendency among those with natural talent to rest upon it and take their confidence in it.
I’ll take the ones with less talent and more drive. At the end of the day, a lot more will be accomplished.
After all, you may not have natural talent but you can learn many of the rules of a thing and accomplish a lot just knowing the basics. Just ask Creedence Clearwater.
Best regards,
Ron Lindeboom
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I am on the exact opposite side of the coin. I’m the one folks invoice, in a big, huge international American corporation. No kiddin’, I was hired out of a local production studio.
In June 2008, I contacted a vendor and I ordered 1 quantity (big expensive stuff). The vendor construed the email thread as 2 quantities. The vendor sent the proposal to the wrong email address. On the day of install, I received 2, but refused 1, and sent it back. My Purchase Order was for 1 and it doesn’t matter how much the vendor complains or moans about it, or if they call me names or sweet talk me, or if the confusing email thread was my fault, or if they were doing me a favor and hitting a tight deadline. They screwed up their own business practice. When they didn’t receive my signed proposal, they should have called, emailed, faxed, sent smoke signals–something to let me know my order was stalled. We would have then discovered my last name was spelled incorrectly. Anyway, the vendor got paid for 1 and is now stuck with a distressed inventory that continues to depreciate.
Am I being a grinder? No.
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[Ron Lindeboom] “We had a guy in our company who was one of the smartest people that I had ever met. In three years he did little to nothing. He accomplished little, even though he had mountains of talent, knowledge and ability. We finally got rid of him to hire Abraham — who had none of his predecessor’s knowledge or ability. But what Abraham did have is drive and ambition. In half the time of his predecessor’s tenure here, Abraham has accomplished 10 times more, at least. It may even be double that estimate. “
Great example…that pretty much sums up what I was trying to say…
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Franklin McMahon / Host
CreativeCow.net PODCASTCreative Cow Podcast in iTunes /
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An almost on-topic observation about restaurants: there’s one here in Boston, been around since 1827, and is famous for, as Wikipedia puts it, “The service is also a partial hold-over from the time of its founding as the waitstaff have been encouraged to adopt a “surly” attitude and “backtalk” the clientele.”
Yep, 180 years of bad service.
The last time I was there, the waitress didn’t say a word, and set everything down juuuuuuust out of reach. She was definitely enjoying herself.
You have to stand in line, because they don’t take reservations — yet serve 1500 people/day. Count on a couple of hours for lunch.
You have to sit on uncomfortable wooden benches at communal tables, always elbow-to-elbow with strangers. It’s almost painfully loud.
They only take cash.
Kind of interesting — only 4 or 5 head chefs since they were founded. (I know for a fact that there had only been 3 up until 1985.)
Did I mention that they’ve been around since 1827? And that you have to wait a very long time to be one of over a dozen hundred people to pay cash to sit on an uncomfortable bench with strangers to be served by rude people?
So anyway, not to belabor the point, there are a lot of routes to success.
I’m also reminded in a little more on-topic-y way of a saying we had in the software business: shipping is a feature. There’s no such thing as perfect software, so at a certain point, get it out the door. I’ve heard at least one giant in our field saying that he had to ship the version they knew had bugs — so that he could keep the cash flow up while they fixed the bugs! They had revenue targets to hit, and there were genuinely dire consequences to innocent children if things didn’t keep moving.
The same may be true in your own business.
Which is to say, there are budgets, calendars, and reality. Pick two.
(I just made that up, and am inordinately pleased with myself.)
Of course, I have a t-shirt from Aron’s Records, one of the finest retail establishments to ever grace this earth. It says, “Fast. Friendly. Service. Pick one.”
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Ron Lindeboom And to make it clear, I trump your 25 years in business by a decade and a half, so if we are going to get into experiential comparisons, I have been at it far longer and in far bigger markets with much more focused competition. So if you would like to turn this into a boy’s gym wanker contest, then let’s have at it.
Ron…I wasn’t trying to do that at all. I was just saying my perspective doesn’t come without experience. As I’ve said in both posts…I think we’re basically saying the same things. I just believe that talent is more integral to success than you and Franklin do. Undying hard work and the best marketing in the world can’t magically make everyone succeed.
You must possess(at the very least) solid skills and deliver what you promise. If not…at some point those lack of skills will expose the person or cause a blunder so colossal that the person’s reputation will never recover. I affectionately call it the “Milli Vanilli affect.”
So I wasn’t trying to trump anybody about anything…just provide another point of view.
Chris Blair
Magnetic Image, Inc.
Evansville, IN
http://www.videomi.com
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