- October 22, 2018 at 1:59 pm
[Warren Eig] “This is how it’s done to emulate a180 degree shutter. 1/50 is 178 degrees. It’s as close to 180 degrees and 1/48 as you can get.”
Hey, if you’re fine with flicker, that’s great. You wouldn’t be able to differentiate 1/50 24p vs 1/60 24p in a blind test. You would fail that.
- October 22, 2018 at 4:02 pm
I won’t beat a dead horse. Never experienced flicker. It might be the lighting units you use.
“The 180° Shutter Rule
The 180-degree rule is a standard in the film industry, and it explains the relationship between shutter speed and frame rate when recording motion in video. To mimic motion the same way the human eye experiences it in real life, the 180-degree rule states that shutter speed should be set to double your frame rate. When you hear people talk about “cinematic shutter speeds” they are referring to this standard where shutter speed is set at double frame rate, or as close as is possible. (Most DSLR’s have the option to shoot at 1/50th but not 1/48th, so if shooting 24 fps, set shutter speed to 1/50th).
The 180° rule can be broken to emulate a specific film era, or used to make video purposefully shaky, or outright jarring. The wider the shutter angle, from 270° up to 360° the more motion blur, and the narrower the shutter angle, (less than 180°), the less motion blur is perceived from one frame to the next.
Since most digital cameras have a curtain shutter and not the film style rotary shutter, a 180° shutter angle equates to shooting with a shutter speed that’s twice that of your frame rate, or technically, 1/[2xfps]. In digital terms, shutter angle is the camera’s shutter speed relative to the frame rate. On DSLRs and other digital cameras, common 180° shutter angles include 1/50th of a second at 24 fps, or 1/60th of a second at 30 fps.
Remember, a fast shutter speed will produce a darker picture with little to no motion blur (depending on the speed of the subject), while a slow shutter speed will produce a lighter image with more pronounced motion blur. ”
For Camera Accessories – Monitors and Batteries
- October 22, 2018 at 4:29 pm
This seems a nonsense discussion.
The flicker comes from a mismatch between framerate and light flickering.
Old style fluorecent lights, and I fear (at least some) modern LED flicker at the AC net frequency. 50 Hz in Europe, 60 in the US.)
Same goes for (crt) monitors.
To avoid flicker you should match the framerate to the net rate if there is a danger, or have dynamic shutter so you can find a harmonic frequency to find a sweet spot.
It has nothing to do with motion.
But, a low motion blur video (like rolling end credits without MB enabled) will flicker also, as 24 / 25 / 30 is NOT the framerate that people cant tell the difference anymore.
- October 22, 2018 at 4:45 pm
[Bouke Vahl] “The flicker comes from a mismatch between framerate and light flickering.”
That’s entirely not correct. It comes from a mistmatch of the how the light is “oscillating” (for lack of a better term) and [i]shutter speed[/i]. Period.
- October 22, 2018 at 4:48 pm
You can copy and paste whatever you want, I’m telling you that you [i]will[/i] fail a blind test between 1/50 and 1/60 and, since you cannot tell a difference of any sort, you should always film at 1/60 regardless of whether you are shooting in 23.98 or 29.97 because you will eliminate the chance that a light source will flicker on you at 1/50 and you won’t notice that until you get into post. If you’re willing to count on luck to avoid that, great.
- October 22, 2018 at 4:53 pm
I guess the difference come to tools. We use Fricker free lights in Hollywood. I’ve shot tons of footage and haven’t encountered flicker. But again, right tool for the job. Sure even shooting with Panavision 35mm cameras and a bad blast we’ve gotten flicker but that was due to faulty equipment.
I don’t shoot under household fluorescents. I’ve shot at 1/60 and I don’t like the motion blur. It’s personal taste.
I work with in the norms of narrative in Hollywood.
For Camera Accessories – Monitors and Batteries
- October 22, 2018 at 5:16 pm
No, it does not. However, with finding a shutter / framerate combo that is in the sweet spot you can eliminate it.
But, afaik, you cannot fix 60Hz flicker on 25 FPS by setting the the shutter to 1/60.
At 60Hz, the light is ‘on’ 60 times a second, while you record 25 images a second.
In some of the images the light is on, some it is off.
So if you manage to set the interval from the shutter to be inside the recording of a frame AND be a harmonic of the light flicker, you’re good.
Next, shoot 30 fps under 60Hz light and tell me what shutter to use to show flicker.
But lets agree to disagree.
- October 22, 2018 at 5:45 pm
[Bouke Vahl] “But, afaik, you cannot fix 60Hz flicker on 25 FPS by setting the the shutter to 1/60.”
I absolutely can. I can fix the flicker of MacBook Pro with Retina display keyboard backlights at 23.98 by setting the shutter to 1/50-ish.
- October 22, 2018 at 5:46 pm
[Warren Eig] “I’ve shot at 1/60 and I don’t like the motion blur. It’s personal taste.”
I’m sure you think you don’t. $100 says you can’t tell the difference in a blind test. Care to put money on the line?
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