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Can we perhaps hold the triumphalism …?
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[Joe Marler] “Even the $16k Canon C300 Mark II uses H.264, with the same issues. Do you mean cameras with internal ProRes or similar codecs?
“I guess that’s an option on the MkII. The C300 cams I’ve worked with recorded an XF codec, which is MPEG-2. But, my preference is for cameras that record XF, AVC-Intra, ProRes or other similar I-frame codecs. Once you start pushing a 50Mbps or 100Mbps long-GOP codec through most NLEs, you’re asking for hurt.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Tim Wilson] “If in fact GPS is practical, and it’s simply not always….
I don’t understand why we’re even talking about this. LOL It’s extra expense and complication, and will require a LOT more development to be practical on location…
“Many cameras have GPS built in already for geotagging. Consider my Sony A7RII — it has GPS, it has various TC functions including rec run, free run, initialize TC to user-entered preset, etc. However it does not have jam sync input. If it and all similar cameras simply accepted GPS to jam sync TC to a user-entered preset value at a given time of day, that would automatically sync them all. It’s a simple firmware update for already existing hardware. It’s not adding some GPS data in place of SMPTE timecode.
Many cameras will record OK for several hours in free run without needing to re-sync. Here is a video of Dave Dugdale “jam syncing” (actually zeroing) TC on multiple A7 cameras, which then allows sync by TC during edit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3Fuoxbv81E
Dave’s procedure is Sony-specific, so you can’t do this on diverse cameras. However there is no reason new cameras which already have GPS and already have menus for user-entered TC could not simply use GPS to simultaneously initialize TC to a user-entered time of day. It’s no different from everyone trying to hit the TC preset button at the same time, except GPS would do this with nanosecond precision. This would avoid in many cases having an external TC and jam syncing by cable, even if the cameras supported that.
Of course there are nice external TC options such as the new relatively inexpensive Tentacle. But increasingly cameras already have the hardware to jam sync TC to a preset value via GPS, they just haven’t written the firmware. Ironically the less expensive hybrid cameras more frequently have GPS than higher-end pro video cameras, likely because the designers just didn’t think about this workflow. You can add a GPS module to many of those but you may as well then add a Tentacle or other sync box.
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When it comes to syncing, count me in the waveform category. I appreciate his video but since X came out I have not jammed TC in the field for anything that I am going to cut.
I don’t really worry about drift with the waves. I don’t see how a wave can drift. A boom is a boom.
His example of volleyball being challenging to wave, kind of confused me. I have shot a lot of volleyball over the years, all the way to the Olympics, and it’s a sport where the crowd is mostly silent waiting for the point to end to yell. During that time you have the sound of the smacking of the ball loudly. Sync that.
As far as TC notes in the field, yeah, I remember that back in the day. You would have your wireless TC send to the reader and a person sitting there. Let’s keep it real, that job has largely been eliminated to save money these days. I wish is weren’t true. I hate seeing jobs lost, but that’s what I see out there now.
I watched Thomas Carter’s video and I don’t remember him speaking that much if any about TC as he assembled his shots. It looked more visual and that’s how I work. the notes say good take but on a large screen with time to really concentrate, there is a bobble in the pan or something in the shot. Gotta look at it anyway and when I do I favorite. I’m going by my notes after screening on a big screen in a quite room that I can really hear in.
I think Jeremy is right, there are separate conversations going on here and his makes sense. I hope he gets it, but I think it’s going to be a business decision like all others. If they get a ton of people asking for that they will likely add it, if they get a few they likely won’t.
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Careful Joe,
You may be risking the wrath of the timecode cartel.
You must accept that just because a lesser camera does something useful, there’s absolutely NO reason to contemplate how it might help the broader industry.
Basically, don’t harsh their bliss.
This was totally solved forever 50 years ago in the BNC tipped cable era and it seams we must accept that there’s nothing more to say about it EVER.
Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com – video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.
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[Bill Davis] “You may be risking the wrath of the timecode cartel.
You must accept that just because a lesser camera does something useful, there’s absolutely NO reason to contemplate how it might help the broader industry. “
Well said, the timecode cartel are ruining the industry, I demand a government investigation!
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Of course, if it weren’t for the timecode cartel, none of us would be working in this industry today…that is those of us who are long in the tooth…I’d love to see someone syncing two one inch machines with a wristwatch…:>)
Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com -
I’ve posted this before, but I now deal with jam sync timecode more than ever.
Why is this? Aren’t we supposed to be leaping forward in to a technology free of set generated clock?
A few reasons:
– Because it’s cheaper and easier than ever
– You don’t need to string wire all over the place
– Audio engineers (where tc usually originates) have so many differing camera menus to deal with, so many different semi-crappy audio connections to deal with, that in order to insure that they get a call back for the next job, they record the audio on something like a Sound Devices mixer/recorder. And when all else fails, you can send an audio tc signal to a camera and turn that in to jam sync tc on audio.I didn’t ask for this to happen, it just started to happen due to limitations and fragmentation in camera technologies.
I NEED programs like Sync-N-Link more than ever. They are more useful than ever, all because timecode is proliferated to nearly every budget level. Doesn’t this help to define the democracy of technology; things get easier to use so more people use them?
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[Jeremy Garchow] “when all else fails, you can send an audio tc signal to a camera and turn that in to jam sync tc on audio…I didn’t ask for this to happen, it just started to happen due to limitations and fragmentation in camera technologies.”
This raises a good point. Some commonly-used field audio recorders don’t have SMPTE timecode, such as the Zoom H4 and even the Tascam DR-680MKII. They may display a pseudo timecode but this isn’t SMPTE metadata. In those cases (as you said) you must dedicate one channel to LTC audio timecode from some generator and then in post convert that to SMPTE TC. Resolve can do that, Premiere and FCPX cannot, however you’d normally use an external utility.
With all the limitations and fragmentation, and with the availability of PluralEyes, it is often easier for lower-end productions to simply use waveform sync. PluralEyes can sync almost anything, even hundreds of clips in one batch. The 4.0 version automatically handles sync drift, so recorders drifting apart on long takes is no problem.
I think there is an untapped potential to use GPS to augment existing TC, even if only simultaneous jam-syncing multiple cameras to a user-entered preset. That doesn’t require any change to TC format, and uses hardware already existing on many cameras.
Re the auxiliary TC features which FCP7 had and FCPX does not, it is unfortunate those making feature films with FCPX have not discussed this in more detail. In Mike Matzdorff’s book he simply said make sure all cameras are jam synced: https://amzn.com/B00UO2NA8I.
While he and director Glenn Ficarra were not shy about mentioning FCPX limitations such as multicam, I don’t recollect them ever discussing lack of aux. TC being an issue. If it wasn’t an issue on feature films, what was their solution?
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[Bill Davis] “Careful Joe,
You may be risking the wrath of the timecode cartel.
“I’m confused Bill. Earlier you seemed to want to blowup the whole concept of TC because it’s antiquated, in your eyes, but now you seem to be back on board with TC. The idea of jam syncing TC with GPS was brought up days ago in this thread and Joe’s post is a more detailed thought piece on that topic. TC doesn’t go away at all (and in the video the guy underscores how much quicker it is to sync via TC than via waveform which is true), GPS just might be a possible alternative to current jam syncing methods.
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[Joe Marler] ”
While he and director Glenn Ficarra were not shy about mentioning FCPX limitations such as multicam, I don’t recollect them ever discussing lack of aux. TC being an issue. If it wasn’t an issue on feature films, what was their solution?”At the level Mike was working at its Not an issue. None of their sources want for locked SMPTE. Neither, actually does the vast majority of my work BUT that’s changing. As you say, when the appropriate camera is a GoPro on a drone or an iPhone on a gimbal – the landscape changes.
That’s where we’re going. Red Weapon as the A camera WITH TC and 4 GoPros with, at best, time of day.
If that’s where I’ve got to work, there is nothing wrong with realizing that it would be swell if there was a higher level time signal available that made them ALL easy to deal with without the modern version of blacking and pre-striping tapes as I wasted hours doing in the 80s.
I think an industry that gives me tools like Lumberjack, Frame.io and yes, FCP X – can think about doing better. And better means using the old system if you want, but developing ways to leverage stuff that already lives in our pockets and that has ALREADY solved time synchronization issues.
Just seems there should be a way to leverage that.
Crazy, I know.
Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com – video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.
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