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Breaking into this industry as an editor
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[grinner hester] “One of the best jobs I ever got was a result of saying “yes” on the phone when they asked if I knew the “NightSuite”. I was hired over the phone, moving arrangements were made, then I hung up and called everyone in my local market looking for one so I could learn it.”
My first professional job was as an A/C on a music video. The producer’s wife cut my hair. He had met me through her. He called one day and asked if I was familiar with the Arri camera. Of course I lied and said I was. That gave me one day to spend at the rental house learning that camera inside and out.
It was still tricky on the shoot as the Camera Op would say “go get the high hat”, etc. Having no clue what the heck a high hat was, I would find a grip and ask if he’d seen it laying around. When he pointed at it right next to me I would play it off as my not seeing it.
Ended up doing a lot of work with that group over the years.
Terence Curren
http://www.alphadogs.tv
http://www.digitalservicestation.com
Burbank,Ca -
[Terence Curren] “…asked if I was familiar with the Arri camera. Of course I lied and said I was.”
[Terence Curren] “Having no clue what the heck a high hat was, I would find a grip and ask if he’d seen it laying around”
No offense intended at all (and sounds like in your case you pulled it off), but those are the kind of people I’m always afraid I’m going to accidentally hire whenever working with a new crew member. Yikes.
I’d much rather someone be truthful and willing to learn something, than to lie to me and say they are proficient at something when they aren’t.
If I ever found out a crew member’s padded resume jeopardized the success of a shoot, they definitely wouldn’t be working for me again. Or probably for anyone else that I know either.
T2
__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com
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I’m new to the COW, but I just landed on this post whilst perusing around so I figured I would throw in my 2 cents as a relative newcomer to the industry. I fell into editing accidentally while going to school for Architecture. It just sort of happened. One day I was sweeping floors and driving the company van for $7/hour at a production house, the next I was behind an Avid workstation. Now I’ve been editing professionally for almost 5 years across multiple platforms. What paid off for me was the hunger. You have to strike a balance between honesty (don’t pad your skill set, just make it clear you want to expand it) and eagerness. Make it clear that you’ll get it done, no matter what’s asked of you. Don’t pass up a single chance to prove yourself.
Work ethic is just as important as knowledge and creativity. Plenty of working editors can’t tell stories very well, but they still find their niche because they keep searching.
Networking is vital, but it can simply be that initial phone call. I have a friend with limited AE experience that just walked into the door at BET in LA and was hired that same afternoon because he knew how to organize bins. That’s no joke. He doesn’t even have a reel. Right place, right time. But you’ve got to bang on the doors.
Keep at it. There’s no magical answer and everyone here got where they are for different reasons. Just keep pushing and stay optimistic no matter what.
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[Todd Terry] “I’d much rather someone be truthful and willing to learn something, than to lie to me and say they are proficient at something when they aren’t. “
First of all, I would never have gotten the job if I said I had never done it before.
Second, I pulled it off which is why I’m still in this profession.
Finally, are you telling me that every time a client or potential employer has asked you to do something you had never done before, that your response is always “I’ve never done that but I’m willing to try”?
I find that hard to believe.
Terence Curren
http://www.alphadogs.tv
http://www.digitalservicestation.com
Burbank,Ca -
[Terence Curren] “are you telling me that every time a client or potential employer has asked you to do something you had never done before, that your response is always “I’ve never done that but I’m willing to try”?”
Pretty much.
Our response is usually “We’ve never done that exactly, but it’s definitely within our capabilities.” Or just simply “Sure, we can do that.” If we can. If someone pointedly asked me “Have you done that before?” and we haven’t, we’d certainly be upfront about it.
I wasn’t picking on you, honestly. Everyone fudges. But there comes a point when it crosses a line and honesty is almost always the best policy.
If I had a crew member who didn’t know what a high hat was, who cares? That’s no big deal. But if I hired a loader who told me “Sure, I’ve loaded a Panavision Millenium hundreds of times, I practically grew up with one” when in actuality he had never even touched a film camera… well, that’s not just a little fib, that’s a boldfaced lie that can end up costing a shoot day and thousands and thousands of dollars because of one missed sprocket hole or one loop just a tiny bit too big or too small… because he only pretended to know what he was doing.
You wouldn’t want your heart surgeon to sneak a little white lie past you (“Oh sure, I’ve done this a thousand times”)… and while it’s not life or death, I take my job just as seriously. Ok… only half as seriously. But serious enough.
T2
__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com
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[Todd Terry] “But if I hired a loader who told me “Sure, I’ve loaded a Panavision Millenium hundreds of times, I practically grew up with one” when in actuality he had never even touched a film camera.”
That’s a far stretch from from where I was at. I had been working with film in various formats since i was 12.
[Todd Terry] “You wouldn’t want your heart surgeon to sneak a little white lie past you (“Oh sure, I’ve done this a thousand times”)… and while it’s not life or death, I take my job just as seriously. Ok… only half as seriously. But serious enough. “
You are jumping to an extreme. If the doctor said he had “done it a thousand times”, he would be blatantly lying. If he said he was “familiar with heart surgery”, and in reality you were actually his first living heart patient, he wouldn’t be lying. Doctors have to work on a lot of cadavers before they touch a living one. And every doctor has his “first” patient for any particular operation. I tend to doubt they all say “you are my first” each time that happens.
Terence Curren
http://www.alphadogs.tv
http://www.digitalservicestation.com
Burbank,Ca -
[Terence Curren] “You are jumping to an extreme.”
I admitted that… as an example.
And “Can you do something?” is a very different question from “Have you done something?” With two potentially different answers.
Our policy stands. Tell the truth.
Maybe I can’t expect that from those looking to us for jobs, but we expect it from ourselves.
T2
__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com
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[Todd Terry] “And “Can you do something?” is a very different question from “Have you done something?” With two potentially different answers. “
There we both agree.
[Todd Terry] “Our policy stands. Tell the truth.
Maybe I can’t expect that from those looking to us for jobs, but we expect it from ourselves. “
So you ALWAYS tell a potential client that you haven’t done something in the past, even if they don’t ask. Even if you know you can do it, but haven’t done it yet?
Terence Curren
http://www.alphadogs.tv
http://www.digitalservicestation.com
Burbank,Ca -
I think you two are in more agreement than it may appear.
Like Terry Curren, I am rarely afraid to jump in and do something new. (Rarely being the operative word.)
Why?
Because like Todd Terry, (and I am sure, Terry Curren), I hold myself to some very demanding standards and Kathlyn would tell you that I will work all night long to get something done if I have promised it to a client.
I only take the things that are within my grasp and while I may never have done that specific function before, I know that I can do the job and will learn it quick — or I wouldn’t take it.
I am honest with myself, and that makes it to where I do not always have to be exactingly honest with a client. (But to be straight up, I wouldn’t answer a direct question with a lie. But on the other hand, I wouldn’t feel obligated to tell every client exactly what I have done or not done in the past.)
If all I took were jobs that I had done before and was comfortable with, then I would have done few things in my career; this, as I have always pushed myself into new ground.
I tend to think that both of you hold VERY high standards and it is your commitment to your customers that has made each of you successful. (I know the work that each does, and I would work with either of you in full confidence if I were a client.)
I guess that the way I tend to see my own moral compass is that (as I have on occasion told clients over the years), “I drive hard for the close because you could do a lot worse than work with me. I place my customers first and therefore I am always driving hard to assure that at the end of the job, they are happy with the result.”
Would I tell a film crew that I could run an ARRI or a Panavision on a film shoot? No. I’ve never done it and would say so. I also laugh thinking that the lack of a union card and no status as an ACE would also give that away. (But I can understand Terry Curren going down to the rental shop and working to learn something he had never done before. I don’t live in an area where I could learn what’s there in a rental shop.) But would I tell someone yes to signing on to do an effect that I have never tried before? In a heartbeat, because I know that I will drive myself to exhaustion to learn it and produce the expected result — or better.
I think you guys are more alike than it may appear at topical glance, especially when seen by those of us who know you both and know what excewllent work you are both capable of.
Have a great weekend, guys.
Best regards,
Ron Lindeboom
Creativity is a type of learning process where the teacher and pupil are located in the same individual.
Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
– Antoine de Saint Exupéry -
[Terence Curren] “So you ALWAYS tell a potential client that you haven’t done something in the past, even if they don’t ask.”
Nope, never said that.
I said I would admit that we haven’t done something IF they asked. I wouldn’t volunteer the info that we hadn’t done it before if they didn’t ask and it was well within our capabilities. But if they did ask, I wouldn’t pretend we had done something when we hadn’t.
Maybe that little “fudge by omission” is a fib in a way, too… but it’s not a blatant lie saying you have done something when you haven’t.
Frankly, it’s just not an issue here. I can’t remember but one or two times in the last decade+ than anyone has ever asked “Have you…?” It’s always “Can you…?” But if they did ask, I know what my answer would be.
And back to the previous extreme example… no, although I can appreciate the fact that everyone has to start somewhere (me included), I personally don’t want to be that heart surgeon’s first patient no matter how many cadavers he’s cut on. I just don’t want to be the next one. 🙂
T2
__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com
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