BluRay failings in Encore CS3. Thoughts?

[Steve Mitchell]

Ok talked with tech support today and they are aware of the problem and engineers are working on it. I asked if there were any known issues with Encore on a PC and she replied “no”, so we will see when my install discs arrive.

[Walter Biscardi]

[steve mitchell] “Ok talked with tech support today and they are aware of the problem and engineers are working on it.”

Yeah, they’ve been working on it for a LONG time with no updates in sight. Hopefully your PC version will work better, but if I’m going to invest in a PC, then I’m going with NetBlender for the time being.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.

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[John Rich]

Walter,
I have done a few BluRay disks using a Windows system and for what it’s worth, I’ll put in my answers.
So my questions to all of you dabbling in BluRay Authoring are:

Are you creating multiple menu projects?
I just use two menus (Play all and Scenes) and then a Scenes menu.

If so, how many menus and how many buttons per menu?
So far I’ve just used menus from the library (one had six buttons). There is at least one HD menu in the Library that has a motion background, which worked for me.

Are they routing correctly when you burn to disc?
THe buttons don’t work when I use chapters, so I have to use separate timelines for each “scene”. Also, the secondary menu always comes up with the second button selected. However, the first or primary menu seems to have the default or first button selected appropriately.

Are you able to burn directly to BluRay disc successfully directly from Encore consistently?
I have always used Encore to make a folder and then burned with ImgBurn even with SD, so I’ve done the same with the BluRay. I have just burned the folder to BD-RE media, but it plays on my PS3 and one other BluRay Player (Sony ) with updated firmware.

Are you able to successfully create BluRay ISO files?
Actually, I’ve created .iso or image files with Encore, and burned them to a regular DVD with ImgBurn and they play on the Sony player, but not PS3.

Are they actually burning to disc correctly and playing back in the BluRay player correctly?
The disks I’ve made have played ok on the Sony Player as I mentioned. I had to edit the file to make the BluRay on regular DVD play on my PS3.

If so, are you running Windows or Mac? Windows.

I’ve included a couple of threads which sort of summarizes the experience of others burning BluRay material to regular DVD’s which may be of interest.
https://www.wrigleyvideo.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=29827

https://www.wrigleyvideo.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=29665

https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/145/863549
John Rich

JOHNR

[Walter Biscardi]

John, thanks for all the info!

[John Rich] “Are they routing correctly when you burn to disc?
THe buttons don’t work when I use chapters, so I have to use separate timelines for each “scene”.

Ok, so are you creating timelines because the buttons won’t route correctly to the correct chapters in a single timeline? That is one thing that actually works here. What does not work here is going back to the Chapter Menu when you hit “Menu” on the remote, it always defaults to the Main Menu no matter what you do.

[John Rich] “Also, the secondary menu always comes up with the second button selected. However, the first or primary menu seems to have the default or first button selected appropriately. “

Exactly the same situation here, only we use a Photoshop menu overlayed on a Motion background following the exact instructions from Nathan Gentner. Still doesn’t work correctly.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.

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[John Rich]

“Ok, so are you creating timelines because the buttons won’t route correctly to the correct chapters in a single timeline? That is one thing that actually works here. What does not work here is going back to the Chapter Menu when you hit “Menu” on the remote, it always defaults to the Main Menu no matter what you do.”

When I use the chapter points to hook up to buttons (even if I use Jeff Bellune’s idea of putting each chapter in it’s own chapter playlist with no overrides), even if the menu seems to preview ok, when I have burned it, the menu navigation works ok, but when I “hit” the button, nothing happens ie no footage plays.

I don’t use enough menus to be able to comment on the Menu on the remote problem.
John

JOHNR

[Ben Holmes]

Walter

Here’s a quick rundown of my first Blu-Ray build. Like others here, I would guess, I am a FCP user who bought Premiere Pro just for Encore. I read it was the only professional authoring solution for Mac available.

I have built a simple disc with 3 menus. Start, Chapters, Special Features. Start has 3 buttons, Chapters 8, Special features 5.

I built the whole disc as blu-ray, simulated it and checked it. I was impressed by the ease of building and testing in Encore. Although it lacks the pizzaz of DVD-SP, it does the basics well IMHO.

Having build an HD project, I let Encore build me a SD DVD of it. I expected some problems, as the disc was built as 23.98p from a 24p master and then sent to DVD as 29.97.

Apart from the encodes taking ages (overnight and then some for 1.5 hrs footage) I was impressed that the disc worked in SD first time. The picture quality was excellent. The Dolby surround track was in place. All was well in the world.

Then I tried to burn the Blu Ray. That was 2 days ago. I’m still here.

The problem for me can be summarised as follows: My buttons do not appear. They are the sort of buttons that have ‘no’ unselected state. In other words, you only see them when they are selected. I needed to do this, as I built motion backgrounds for the menus in motion, and the text for the buttons animates on – so the buttons cannot be visible until selection is possible at the loop point.

I think most of the navigation is working, although with invisible buttons (which – BY THE WAY – aren’t invisible in the simulator) it’s pretty hard to tell. The video is all there and looks fine. I think I have the same issues others have reported with the disk not starting menus on the right button – but I can’t be sure.

I should say at this point that after one failure attempting to burn straight to disc, I now output an ISO and burn in toast. This has not failed once in all my attempts to burn an ISO to my internal Pioneer BD-202 drive, which appeared plug-and-play in OSX when I connected it to the internal SATA ports.

I have built a test menu from my main project and inserted various stock buttons from Encore. About half of them work properly when burnt. When I tried to modify one so I could use it in place of my own buttons it again failed to appear where required.

Even more frustratingly, everytime I try to fix the buttons and re-build the ISO, Encore starts re-encoding ALL the video in the project, even though it shows up as rendered in the project window. This means each test takes hours to complete. I am running out of hours.

As of now, I am frazzled, fed up and out of time to deliver. I can accept that I may have made some error in my build (although I have tried unaltered stock buttons, and many do not work in Blu-Ray) I cannot accept that it works IN THE SIMULATOR AND NOT ON THE DISK.

I had my client around yesterday and I had to show him the problems. He pointed out that as a games developer, they had FREE software at their office for making Blu-Rays on PC that did all this – making menus etc. with no problems. I may have to give him the videos as QTs and let them build it. Frankly, that makes me feel sick.

As soon as I have found ANY solution to this build, I will be attempting to return Encore for a full refund. I’m sure it will not be an easy process. But here’s the truth of it: For a simple Blu-Ray disk, Encore DOES NOT WORK as it should – because what it shows me in the simulator and what it burns to disk are two different things. End of story.

Adobe have lost my custom long term over this – it’s inexcusable.

More to follow.

Ben

Edit Out Ltd
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[Ben Holmes]

The post above should state the following:

I run an 8-Core 2008 Mac Pro running Leopard 10.5.4 – 8 Gb Ram.

Apologies. I’m sure the Leopard part is important.

Ben

Edit Out Ltd
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FCP Editor/Trainer/System Consultant
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RED camera transfer/post
Independent Director/Producer

[Walter Biscardi]

[Ben Holmes] “hen I tried to burn the Blu Ray. That was 2 days ago. I’m still here. “

Well Ben, at least it’s just two days for you, it’s been 12 months for us.

[Ben Holmes] “I cannot accept that it works IN THE SIMULATOR AND NOT ON THE DISK. “

This is absolutely precisely how Encore works and apparently how Adobe tests their software too because they keep “fixing” our problems and the fixes only work in the simulator.

[Ben Holmes] “As soon as I have found ANY solution to this build, I will be attempting to return Encore for a full refund. I’m sure it will not be an easy process. But here’s the truth of it: For a simple Blu-Ray disk, Encore DOES NOT WORK as it should – because what it shows me in the simulator and what it burns to disk are two different things. End of story. “

I’ve been pondering a class-action lawsuit as we figure Encore has cost us in the neighborhood of $25,000 of lost time and wages paid out to contractors to work on Encore projects and try to make a BluRay disc that actually works.

But according to Nathan Gentner, the guy that runs this software at Adobe, all works perfectly on their end.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.

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[Jeff Bellune]

Correct. The Leopard part triggers the bug. It should (will?) burn with no issues under Tiger.

This has been discussed both here and on the Adobe forums.

-Jeff

The Focal Easy Guide to Adobe Encore DVD 2.0

[Ben Holmes]

Jeff

I’m not concerned with the burn bug. I have no issue creating ISOs in Encore and burning them in Toast. Apple’s poor Blu-Ray support is not Adobe’s fault.

The point here is that irrespective of my own failing with the software, what I see in the simulator and what I see after a very lengthy build process are not the same.

That’s faulty software – plain and simple.

Ben

Edit Out Ltd
—————————-
FCP Editor/Trainer/System Consultant
EVS/VT Supervisor for live broadcast
RED camera transfer/post
Independent Director/Producer