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Bill Davis’ LACPUG demo on Multicam…
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[Bill Davis] “Look AVID and PPro both have evolved and they’ve had to manage changes in core technology in their areas – and each time, it takes months if not years for quality new features to evolve for the new platforms. Why isn’t X given that same latitude?”
Because we’re not talking about “new features” were talking about industry standard features that should have been included before the first release. It was Apple’s choice to release Beta software and charge for it, they get the money, they get the criticism.
[Bill Davis] “They called it FCP-X as if it was the tenth iteration of the same program. But that was clearly Marketing not wanting to lose the brand recognition and cachet. No different from Ford producing a 2012 “Mustang” and everyone understanding it’s a totally re-desitned device compared to the original. That’s just business 101.”
But if Ford released their 2012 Mustang and it lacked air-conditioning, ABS brakes, and electric windows, they would have been laughed out of the market.
Apple made a business choice to mislead the public with their branding, they also made a choice to release beta quality software as finished. Apple made a lot of money doing this, as you’ve pointed out, but they’ve also created a lot of enmity. This anger is not unfair, in my opinion, it was the obvious cost of doing business the way they chose to conduct it. Only time will tell if the short term gains they achieved will be worth it.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[Herb Sevush] ” All I’m saying is that X does not get a free pass for it’s inefficiencies any more that it should be ignored for it’s strengths; this “it’s totally new, wait till it grows up” argument does not pass muster”
You think fcpx has had a free pass? I sure don’t. Apple has been taking industry wide public uppercuts to the chin since the NAB Supermeet hostile take over, and that was obviously by choice.
And yes, the first few releases were certainly burning toast, but it is in much better shape now and it has stemmed from further development of where it started, and not necessarily making it work like fcp7. This type of development takes time, and Apple is doing what Apple does; they start over from a basic set of core functionality and build up around it over time learning from users/developers where the bugs need to be squashed while simultaneously developing those core functions.
No doubt it was a paid beta release, but they haven’t charged for more functionality since the first day it went on sale.
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ANDREW KIMMERY – “As far as user bases go… they all have their loud mouths”
Yes, that’s true. But, at the time I got the most grief about suggested improvements from Avid’s selected forum moderators. Quite frankly, I was astounded. There were other reasons for my switch to FCP, but this certainly didn’t help keep me with Avid.
I do sense there is a difference at Avid now. It took a long time coming, years after I left. And I do think Media Composer is a good, very effective product. For my workflow, it’s just not the best choice at this point.
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“If we didn’t all think the timeline was a basket case”, Some great posts recently Aindreas, they’ve generated some great discussion, it’s nice to see the old favourites back though.
Steve Connor
‘It’s just my opinion, with an occasional fact thrown in for good measure” -
[Steve Connor] “it’s nice to see the old favourites back though.”
Yep… And the thing is… some of we actually like the X timeline. Hard to believe, but true. 😉 I get the criticism, I disagree with it, but I get it. But when you really start to work with it though, and get to the point where you’re not trying to fight it, it’s really nice. Not perfect yet, but very pleasant. 🙂
i had to start a project in FCP 7 last week because I need to be able to bounce it back and forth with other editors who are still on 7. It’s painful. Honestly, the only things “missing” from the X timeline, for me, are the ability to group roles, and minimize storylines. Any other stuff is icing on the cake.
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~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~
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[Herb Sevush] “Yes, maybe the manufacturer will fix that in the next model, or maybe they won’t, but for right now if you use it you’ll burn your toast.”
(lunch break)
But Herb, that’s the central point. X puts out BEAUTIFUL toast. Right now. Fast and easy. The problem is that some folks haven’t taken the time to read the instructions on how to set up and operate the toaster – so they feel justified in trashing it. Or they don’t like that the “toast color” adjustment is a slider rather than a dial and has a way to store color preference by user in a database that takes some time to setup properly – and that’s fine. But they extrapolate this to mean the toaster is crap – and the people getting great toast out of it simply belie that view..
If, as Aindreas is always arguing – X truly ONLY is capable of putting out burnt toast, there wouldn’t be much discussion here. Cuz, nobody defends edit software that can’t edit.
Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com – video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “Apple has been taking industry wide public uppercuts to the chin since the NAB Supermeet hostile take over, and that was obviously by choice.”
That is my entire point, that it was by choice. Much of the criticism is unfounded and ignorant but in the larger sense it is not unfair, it is the cost of doing business the way apple chose to do it.
This part of the Thread was started by an observation about the lack of control surfaces for audio editing in X. The simple statement that “something like that might be added in the future” is reasonable, the statement that “because X is so new they haven’t had time to get around to it and it will surely come” is just a lot of unnecessary unjustified baloney.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[Herb Sevush] ” the statement that “because X is so new they haven’t had time to get around to it and it will surely come” is just a lot of unnecessary unjustified baloney.”
Haven’t had time to get around to it is certainly not the right thing to say.
It simply hasn’t been developed yet, or there is simply no hook for it at this point. The software isn’t ready.
I don’t think it’s because Apple forgot or because they are lazy, I think it’s because they started over and hooks like that still need to be written and redesigned.
But first, they have to make sure the rest of the application is working before introducing a potential bug path.
A control surface extends current functionality, right? They add more buttons, give tactile control, etc. FCPX certainly has the button part pretty well on its way, but since there’s nothing like a color wheel or audio fader in the actual program, how could a control surface interface be written at this point in time?
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[Charlie Austin] “Honestly, the only things “missing” from the X timeline, for me, are the ability to group roles, and minimize storylines. Any other stuff is icing on the cake.
“+1 on that.
Steve Connor
‘It’s just my opinion, with an occasional fact thrown in for good measure” -
[Charlie Austin] “i had to start a project in FCP 7 last week because I need to be able to bounce it back and forth with other editors who are still on 7. It’s painful. Honestly, the only things “missing” from the X timeline, for me, are the ability to group roles, and minimize storylines. Any other stuff is icing on the cake.
“Oddly enough, the pain you are referring to is what I feel, these days, when I move from Symphony back to FCP. It was actually sort of a shock; I’ve been cutting promos in Symphony for a while now, and I had to move back to FCP to cut a couple of big Sizzles. What actually shocked me was the level I resented being back in the program. I’ve gotten very used to the Avid approach, have a tight system down, and found myself very frustrated to be back in FCP. And, it struck me–this is what the X folks are talking about. And a lot of it is the little details: color-coding tracks, the snappiness of the trimming keys, trimming while looping, sharing/exporting bins, the source timeline, the ease of using timelines as as source material, easily collapsable/hide tracks (I LOVE this feature) , waveforms in selection only. Once you get used to the little niceties, you begin to resent their absence in other platforms.
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