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Beats by Dr. Dre???
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[David Lawrence] “[Steve Connor] “Then move one of the clips to the primary storyline”
What if it’s not “Primary”? This doesn’t solve the problem or answer the question. Are vertical connected clip relationships meaningful or not?
“When you need them to be – yes, but not always
[David Lawrence] “[Steve Connor] “Once again your example shows that you don’t understand how to edit in FCPX, the fact you didn’t know about overwrite trim shows this. The timeline is NOT always rippling, you are wrong.”
Steve, with all due respect, when I’m wrong, I’m happy to admit it. Are you able to do the same? I was wrong about Overwrite Trim. You are wrong when you say:
[Steve Connor] “Using the Position tool turns the magnetic timeline off…”
It doesn’t turn it off.”
Yes it does, apart from gap clips, which is not a problem because you don’t treat them as clips, they are gaps. You don’t seem to be able to understand this.
I admit when I’m wrong, I have done a number of times on here, even DRW will attest to that. I’m not wrong on this.
[David Lawrence] “Try my example yourself and watch what happens.”
As I said your example is NOT correct use of the FCPX timeline, you can take this from an experienced FCPX Editor.
[David Lawrence] “The reason the edits get destroyed when you nudge a gap with the Position Tool is because the timeline is rippling them into the gap space.”
Yes, that’s because the position tool ripples gap clips, but that’s all it ripples
[David Lawrence] “Try it. “You’re holding it wrong” isn’t an answer.”
Yes it is, you are wrong
Very much a case of “let’s agree to disagree strongly”
Steve Connor
“FCPX Agitator”
Adrenalin Television -
[David Lawrence] “Not exactly. In your example at 0:15, moving the clips down the storyline changes the connection of two of them to a clip on the storyline. Their relationship is now tied to that clip. What if that’s not my intention?
“Sorry, forgot to answer this. If you then find your clips are tied to another clip that you don’t want them connected to, you simply lift that clip from the primary storyline, creating a new gap clip in the primary for your two clips to be connected to.
Steve Connor
“FCPX Agitator”
Adrenalin Television -
[David Lawrence] “No, it’s not turning off ripple on the timeline. It’s a tool mode that overwrites and inserts gap when needed. Not the same thing as turning off timeline ripple.
Try my example yourself and watch what happens.
The reason the edits get destroyed when you nudge a gap with the Position Tool is because the timeline is rippling them into the gap space.”
David, is this what you were trying to do in your “example” – notice there is NO rippling going on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lca4aP6fsrI&context=C396aa96ADOEgsToPDskKyTfxgaf1sfvhCwO-OMx16
Steve Connor
“FCPX Agitator”
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[Steve Connor] “Sorry, forgot to answer this. If you then find your clips are tied to another clip that you don’t want them connected to, you simply lift that clip from the primary storyline, creating a new gap clip in the primary for your two clips to be connected to.”
LOL, now we’re right back to where we started!
[Steve Connor] “As I said your example is NOT correct use of the FCPX timeline, you can take this from an experienced FCPX Editor. “
Disagree. I think my demo reasonable and consistent with the timeline object paradigm.
Here’s another way to think about it:
Gaps are objects. You can select them in the timeline index. You can move them with the arrow tool. You can connect clips to them. When you move gaps with connected clips using the arrow tool, everything works exactly as you’d expect.
If you move a clip with the Position tool, gap is left behind. Why? Because otherwise the timeline would ripple shut. This makes sense.
But if you move a gap with the Position Tool, even one frame, the timeline incorrectly assumes the intention is to remove the gap so it ripples shut.
The correct and consistent behavior would be for gap to be left behind. Simple. It should work exactly the same for gap objects as it does for clip objects. This would fix the problem be consistent with the Position Tool mode. I don’t think I’m out of line here.
Steve, I respect your insights but there’s more going on than “You’re holding it wrong.”
[Steve Connor] “Very much a case of “let’s agree to disagree strongly””
This we can agree on! 😉
_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl -
[David Lawrence] “[Steve Connor] “As I said your example is NOT correct use of the FCPX timeline, you can take this from an experienced FCPX Editor. ”
Disagree. I think my demo reasonable and consistent with the timeline object paradigm.”
I guess you’re holding it wrong 😉
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[David Lawrence] “But if you move a gap with the Position Tool, even one frame, the timeline incorrectly assumes the intention is to remove the gap so it ripples shut.”
Which is why you don’t do it, but it is the ONLY thing that ripples in the timeline when using the position tool, whether it’s a bug or the end of a logic chain in the software that assumes when you move a gap you, don’t want to create another gap so it ripples. But of course you can trim gaps and connected clips without rippling, as you say, using the arrow keys as in my newer video.
Steve Connor
“FCPX Agitator”
Adrenalin Television -
[Steve Connor] “David, is this what you were trying to do in your “example” – notice there is NO rippling going on.”
Steve,
THANK YOU for digging deeper and giving this a try.
No, your demo is doing something different. You’re performing a slide edit on the gap. Note how the head of the the clip in the Primary to the right of the gap is changing as you slide.
My demo is of an overwrite move. The head of the clip to the right of the clip should stay the same.
Try that with the Position Tool and watch what happens.
_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl -
[David Lawrence] “No, your demo is doing something different. You’re performing a slide edit on the gap. Note how the head of the the clip in the Primary to the right of the gap is changing as you slide.”
True, because the clip is not rippling
[David Lawrence] “My demo is of an overwrite move. The head of the clip to the right of the clip should stay the same.
“As in my first video
Steve Connor
“FCPX Agitator”
Adrenalin Television -
[Steve Connor] “True, because the clip is not rippling”
That has nothing to do with the in and out points of the surround clips. I’m not interested in changing the head and tail of the surround clips. This has nothing to do with whether they ripple or not.
[Steve Connor] “But that would mean the timeline to the right of the clip is rippling?”
No. With overwrite, nothing on the timeline should move in either direction, except the object you’re dragging with your cursor. You might cover objects to the left or right with the object you’re dragging and shorten them, but they should never change position on the timeline or lengthen.
_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl -
[David Lawrence] “No. With overwrite, nothing on the timeline should move in either direction, except the object you’re dragging with your cursor. You might cover objects to the left or right with the object you’re dragging and shorten them, but they should never change position on the timeline or lengthen.”
Which is exactly what happens in my first video, also in the second video no edit points change position as well. The only thing that happens is that the clip to the right of the gap is lengthened as the gap clip moves, the original edit frame in that clip stays in the same position.
[David Lawrence] “But if you move a gap with the Position Tool, even one frame, the timeline incorrectly assumes the intention is to remove the gap so it ripples shut.
The correct and consistent behavior would be for gap to be left behind. Simple. It should work exactly the same for gap objects as it does for clip objects. This would fix the problem be consistent with the Position Tool mode. I don’t think I’m out of line here.”
This is true, and it’s either a bug or the end of a logic chain in the programming that assumes you don’t want to create a gap by moving another gap, either way it’s inconsistent behaviour I’ll give you that. That’s why we don’t use gaps in that way when editing in FCPX, as I explained previously.
I demonstrated the way you can achieve what you were trying to do without moving the gap clip, call it a workaround if you want,
[David Lawrence] “Steve, I respect your insights but there’s more going on than “You’re holding it wrong.””
For whatever reason, correct usage of FCPX if you want to avoid this behaviour, is to avoid moving gap clips with the position tool. Your example demonstrates using the tool incorrectly based on FCPX at this time. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t highlight the issue with gap clips though.
I will not agree with your statement that the entire timeline is “ripple only”, because apart from the gap behaviour, when you use the position tool, it isn’t.
What I can say, through my months of experience with FCPX on a range of projects, is that the issue doesn’t affect how I edit in FCPX at all.
I may disagree with some of your logic but I have a great deal of respect for the way you approach things which makes me question and re-examine the way I work in FCPX, every time you pursue an argument like this I learn something new and that’s certainly a good thing.
Steve Connor
“FCPX Agitator”
Adrenalin Television
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