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Audio Only cross fade in X
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[Robin S. Kurz] “I think maybe you need to differentiate between thread and forum.”
No, the style of this forum is that the thread’s are as diverse as the forum, so there is no need to differentiate. Feel free to OT as much as you would like. I certainly do.
[Robin S. Kurz] “The trial version is free and there are endless resources on the subject to be had on the interwebs. Not something I need or care to do, thank you. Aside from that being entire OT as far as this thread is concerned, as I said. If you want to disagree based upon actual knowledge on the subject, that’s certainly your prerogative.”
I wasn’t disagreeing, I was asking for enumeration. I have researched the topic somewhat, and have found no major advantages in either case for X or for Ppro as far as multicam is concerned, but maybe I have missed something. Since you made such an extraordinary case for X I was hoping you might clarify it; the idea of downloading an X trial and spending months only to find out that I had wasted my time was not on my agenda, not with such an expert on multicam as you on this forum. But alas, poor me, you neither “need or care” to back up your statements, so I will have to treat them accordingly.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[Robin S. Kurz] “certainly aren’t situations that one encounters constantly, though something tells me you’re going to say that they of course are. Probably even daily, of course. :D”
Don’t be like that. That’s simply out of line. If Herb tells you he does it every day, on every edit, he does. Period. Debating him on what he does, or accusing him of stretching the truth to make a point is simply inappropriate.
Among the many points of this forum is for people to discuss workflows. That requires listening, and accepting alternate points of view. FCPX is simply NOT the best NLE for every person and every project, no matter how much some enthusiasts are trying to argue the point.
And I say this as the first and most enthusiastic of the earlier enthusiasts. I just also believe that it’s ridiculous to try to shoehorn every workflow into it. I’ve also been one of the most enthusiastic endorsers of Adobe Premiere, and have been since it was my own first NLE in 1994.
(Now THAT was some hard work, y’all. LOL However, I’ve loved it since Premiere Pro was introduced in 2003, and I think Mac users have no idea just how powerful it was with hardware like Matrox Digisuite.I’m pretty sure there’s still nothing like it on the Mac side.
And hey, does anybody else here remember pre-SpiceRack Michael Feerer’s book, Premiere 4 With a Passion back in 95? Epic.)
Anyway, in no case is it appropriate to suggest that somebody is saying something untrue to make a point, solely because it doesn’t apply to you. If everyone had the same problems, and could work with the same solutions, those of us at the COW would need to look for other jobs. It’s a complicated world, and that complexity deserves out utmost and dearest respect.
Throwing in a smilie and some variation of “different strokes for different folks” at the end of a post that argues the contrary is disengenuous. It’s frankly beneath you. Speak your piece, honestly and directly, and assume that other people are doing the same.
I mention this about Herb in particular. One reason that “the usual suspects” are in this forum even though they may not use FCPX is because they’ve been in Creative COW for YEARS. You know when Herb joined Creative COW? The day we opened in 2001. Account #248. We’re coming up on 300,000 now.
Herb was also an active part of our previous community, which celebrates its 20th anniversary this spring.
That doesn’t NECESSARILY give him any more authority than you or anyone else. We rely on new members such as yourself to stay alive, Robin. Everyone is an expert on something that nobody else is. But for speaking about his WORK, Herb is the ONLY authority.
Herb has also seen the work of people here for many years, and they have earned his trust over decades as his peers. Who else would he possibly be talking to about these issue? Nobody. THIS is where this discussion belongs, and it’s where Herb belongs talking about it.
I apologize to Herb for shining a spotlight on him that he might not appreciate, but you newer folks would do well to look at the profiles of other people you’re talking to, so you know what you’re talking about.
Finally, Herb is one of these mythical dinosaurs who has in fact changed NLEs (and linear systems) far more times than the younger members here. He has done this under live fire on one of America’s most prestigious television networks, on one of their flagship shows.
It might be interesting ON A NEW THREAD to take a look at the specifics of Herb’s Adobe Premiere Pro workflow for tight-turnaround multicam TV production. Having changed NLEs as many times as he has, I know that Herb is open to changing again. He simply asked you specifically how FCPX could improve what he does. Fair question I think.
Fair question for another thread. 🙂 So maybe start with his article, and start a new thread to suggest benefits that FCPX offers that would improve upon his Premiere Pro workflow. I find specifics to be very helpful.
Cooking With Premiere Pro CC on PBS’s America’s Test Kitchen
Best regards,
Tim Wilson, Ex Cathedra
Creative COW(Not the infallible part, just the part about speaking in my official capacity as an officer of the organization)
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[Tim Wilson] “Don’t be like that. That’s simply out of line.”
I have a problem with this post. I can’t quite get it yet, but certainly something is not right. Picking out one person, no matter how long they have been on this forum, and calling them out, is out of line. There are plenty of “sharp personalities” (myself included, probably Herb too) on this list. I don’t feel it’s right to pick out one. Robin is certainly one of those “sharp personalities” but he is also one of the smartest X person I have encountered. And after all, this is a forum about FCPX, right? If you want to moderate a post, fine. But using several paragraphs to call one person out is wrong. The readers of the forum will decide who to believe or not.
Ok, I’ll get off my liberal soap-box now. Carry on.
Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter -
I’ll accept your criticism, and extend my apology for over-responding to Robin.
Where I failed was in not crisply stopping my admonition to Robin in particular at the end of the first paragraph, and picking it up again at the end.
For the rest, separated from Robin as you completely rightly point out, I completely stand by it. Calling people’s motives into question, and whether or not they belong here is a step back in time to three years ago or more. Coming up on 4 actually. Not good.
And I do in general see more of people (again not meaning to single out Robin) being adamant that only FCPX is the best choice for every workflow, and waving a hand over “unless you need After Effects or movies,” but even that level of nuance is fading over time.
Which is fine. I’m nearing the time when I’ll have been out of the game longer than I was in it. Every single person here is more of an expert on applications and workflows than me. I imagine this to be the case until the end of my career, and quickly accelerating. Maybe FCPX actually IS the best choice for every task.
Yet, with apologies again to Robin and the group, my basic points stand.
— Accusations of rhetorical exaggeration are off limits. Your “edge case” may be somebody else’s life blood. Especially in cases where Legend DID fulfill those needs, this becomes part of the complexity that we have to protect, administratively and as a community.
— Orthodoxy tests (you must use FCPX and like it) are off limits.
— Look before you leap. Experts are everywhere in Creative COW, and I would certainly include Robin among them. But people are often here because they’ve spent a decade or two building the thing.
–When somebody asks for specifics, we all save a lot of time by jumping ahead to those specifics, rather than saying the equivalent of “you’re holding it wrong.”
I always appreciate being called on my own faulty stewardship as well.
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[Tim Wilson] “For the rest, separated from Robin as you completely rightly point out, I completely stand by it. Calling people’s motives into question, and whether or not they belong here is a step back in time to three years ago or more. Coming up on 4 actually. Not good”
and you’re right to call it out when it happens
[Tim Wilson] ” Maybe FCPX actually IS the best choice for every task.
“It’s not, it’s a developing piece of software that still has some growing to to do, but it IS remarkably good for MANY workflows.
I’m an FCPX user, have been since it first arrived, it’s my primary NLE, I’ve used as much as anyone on here and I enjoy using it a lot, but even I still get called out by some of the more evangelical users on here when I suggest there are some deficiencies with it.
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[Tim Wilson] ” Maybe FCPX actually IS the best choice for every task.
I would dearly love to spend a day with Herb showing how brilliant FCPX Multicam is. Other than that I cannot help persuade him because I have never used Adobe PP in Multicam mode – my only previous Multicam experience was FCP ‘Legend’ (as it now seems to be called). My opinion is therefore of limited value to anyone using PP.
But if one makes a claim like “Something I’d say X does exponentially better than any other NLE on the market btw”. It is bold indeed.
One needs to be able to substantiate this claim in some way (albeit subjective) if it going to have any credibility or value to the rest of us on the forum who are here to learn and occasionally share any snippets of wisdom of our own.
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[James Ewart] “I would dearly love to spend a day with Herb showing how brilliant FCPX Multicam is. Other than that I cannot help persuade him because I have never used Adobe PP in Multicam mode – my only previous Multicam experience was FCP ‘Legend’ (as it now seems to be called). My opinion is therefore of limited value to anyone using PP.
But if one makes a claim like “Something I’d say X does exponentially better than any other NLE on the market btw”. It is bold indeed.
One needs to be able to substantiate this claim in some way (albeit subjective) if it going to have any credibility or value to the rest of us on the forum who are here to learn and occasionally share any snippets of wisdom of our own.
“I’ve used multicam on both, but only picture cuts in relatively simple conference and music videos, while I prefer the FCPX implementation, they are both relatively similar and I wouldn’t say FCPX was “exponentially” better. Can’t speak for edits with more complex audio though.
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[Herb Sevush] “the idea of downloading an X trial and spending months only to find out that I had wasted my time was not on my agenda, “
There’s a lot of truth here. Even if X is slightly better in some way the effort to switch is not insignificant. This is why I don’t even consider Premiere. I made my call with X, and I still believe it was the right one and believe it’s simply the best documentary editor out there. As an institutional editor, I can only switch editing programs maybe every 6 years or so. But even if I wanted to switch to Premiere, it would be more trouble than it would be worth. They are both quite capable programs.
But to the original point I’d say Fade Handles are the tool designed for the job. Superior in precision to transition fades, but inferior in speed. Depends on which you care about more. But I don’t see how this particular issue would hardly enter the equation about whether you go with X or Premiere.
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[James Ewart] “I would dearly love to spend a day with Herb showing how brilliant FCPX Multicam is.”
James, I invite you to a thread I just started to do precisely that.
https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/335/76770
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[Steve Connor] “I’ve used multicam on both, but only picture cuts in relatively simple conference and music videos, while I prefer the FCPX implementation, they are both relatively similar and I wouldn’t say FCPX was “exponentially” better. Can’t speak for edits with more complex audio though.”
[Steve Connor] “I’ve used multicam on both, but only picture cuts in relatively simple conference and music videos, while I prefer the FCPX implementation, they are both relatively similar”
Steve, I invite you to a thread I just started to further this discussion.
https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/335/76770
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf
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