Attn.: Jan C. – AJ-SPC700 Questions

[Jan Crittenden livingston]

Peter DeCrescenzo wrote:Jan Crittendon:
That is Crittenden. 😉

>I’m wondering if you have answers for the following questions concerning the new AJ-SPC700 2/3″ 16:9 shoulder-mount P2 SD camcorder:

1. Might “24p” be available as a field (or Panasonic service depot) upgrade for this camera?

No, that would be the AJ-SPX800.

2. Can the camera output a “live” DVCPRO-50 datastream out its Firewire port? For example, not first stored on P2, but output directly via the FW port into Final Cut Pro?

Of course, the 1394 port is an option but it is possible.

Best regards,

Jan

Jan Crittenden Livingston
Product Manager, DVCPRO, DVCPRO50, AG-DVX100
Panasonic Broadcast & TV Systems

[Deleted User]

[Jan Crittenden Livingston] “Peter DeCrescenzo wrote: Jan Crittendon:
That is Crittenden. ;-)”

Oops! Sorry about the misspelling! My apologies. Actually, it’s “Jan Crittenden Livingston, I presume?” 🙂

[Jan Crittenden Livingston] “Peter asked: 1. Might “24p” be available as a field (or Panasonic service depot) upgrade for this camera?

No, that would be the AJ-SPX800.”

Unfortunately, as you know the MSRP for the AJ-SPX800 is almost $7,000 USD higher than the AJ-SPC700. Doesn’t that seem rather steep to get 24p & 30p, which if I’m not mistaken is the primary difference between the two models?

Another way to look at it: The above price delta is about the same as the announced price of the new AJ-HVX200 cam, which as you know includes many more features than just two frame rates. I realize this is an apples & oranges comparison, but it serves as an example of a dollar “value” for 24p & 30p.

Perhaps the AJ-SPX800 is priced too high, or the AJ-SPC700 too low? >grin< Or is there some other feature in the AJ-SPX800 which justifies this large price difference between these two cams? In any event, the lack of a reasonably priced 24p (and 30p) upgrade for the AJ-SPC700 is a deal killer for me, regrets. For my clients' corporate and broadcast video applications, Sony's new DSR-450WS DVCAM camcorder looks to be a better match, and its $18,000 USD MSRP includes a hi-res B&W CRT viewfinder (unlike the AJ-SPX800). Of course the DSR-450WS is "only" DVCAM (not DVCPRO & DVCPRO-50), but it includes 24p & 30p as a standard feature, and has a reasonably-priced SDI option available for "live" 10-bit 4:2:2 output. (As you know, an SDI signal can be recorded in the field using a variety of systems, including a DVCPRO-50 or Digital Betacam field recorder, or using an Apple PowerBook, a AJA IO-LD interface unit, and a Firewire 800 hard drive.) [Jan Crittenden Livingston] “Peter asked: 2. Can the camera output a “live” DVCPRO-50 datastream out its Firewire port? For example, not first stored on P2, but output directly via the FW port into Final Cut Pro?

Of course, the 1394 port is an option but it is possible.”

Thanks for this confirmation, Jan. Unfortunately, given the price deltas discussed above, the AJ-SPC700 and AJ-SPX800 don’t seem to meet my client’s needs & budgets, regrets.

In any event, your time & attention is greatly appreciated.

All the best,

– Peter

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[Jan Crittenden livingston]

[Peter DeCrescenzo] Of course the DSR-450WS is “only” DVCAM (not DVCPRO & DVCPRO-50), but it includes 24p & 30p as a standard feature, and has a reasonably-priced SDI option available for “live” 10-bit 4:2:2 output. “

So how does the Sony lay the 24P to tape? And is it a true progressive capture? I kept meaning to get over there but couldn’t break away.

Personally I would price them both out and look at real performance before I made a decision.

Thanks,

Jan

Jan Crittenden Livingston
Product Manager, DVCPRO, DVCPRO50, AG-DVX100
Panasonic Broadcast & TV Systems

[Deleted User]

[Jan Crittenden Livingston] “So how does the Sony lay the 24P to tape? And is it a true progressive capture? I kept meaning to get over there but couldn’t break away. …”

I’m not surprised to hear you were plenty busy at the Panasonic booth!

According to Sony’s DSR-450 product brochure (always a source of truth >grin<): "... Film-like Images with Progressive Mode: Incorporating Sony Power HAD EX CCDs, the DSR-450WS (NTSC model) and DSR-450WSP (PAL model) generate progressive images of 29.97P and 25P respectively, delivering outstanding clarity as well as a cinematic look. In addition, the DSR-450WS (NTSC model) can produce 23.976P images, offering film-like motion effects. Images captured in 23.976P scanning mode in the camera head are 2-3 pulldowned and recorded on tape at 59.94i field rate. ..." https://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusiness/minisites/NAB/images/DSR400_450brochure.pdf

The above is all the info I have at present on this topic. Once my local dealers (Snader in Marin, CA and VMI in Sunnyvale) get demo units I hope to try them out for evaluation.

I’m hopeful that my editing app of choice, FCP, will (already? soon?) know what to do with _progressive_ DVCAM tapes and files captured from this new Sony cam. I may be mistaken, but this might be the first time there’s been such a thing as a _progressive_ DVCAM recording? Thus, the proof will be in the pudding.

Obviously an advantage of all forms of DVCPRO is that the post path is well established.

[Jan Crittenden Livingston] “… Personally I would price them both out and look at real performance before I made a decision.”

Will do. If you have further comments concerning how Panasonic’s 2/3″ P2 cams compare to Sony’s DSR-450WS I’d love to hear them.

All the best,

– Peter

Just a friendly reminder to all: Please consider filling-in your COW user profile information so we have a better idea who you are, where you’re from, and so forth. It’s the friendly thing to do. Thanks!

[Jan Crittenden livingston]

Hey Peter,

It looks as thought that realy cool feature in the workflow called 2:3:3:2 or 24PA is not available on this camera, so you will have to render out all of the 24 frames. Can this realy be?

Jan

Jan Crittenden Livingston
Product Manager, DVCPRO, DVCPRO50, AG-DVX100
Panasonic Broadcast & TV Systems

[Deleted User]

[Jan Crittenden Livingston] “It looks as thought that realy cool feature in the workflow called 2:3:3:2 or 24PA is not available on this camera, so you will have to render out all of the 24 frames. Can this realy be?”

Thanks for the heads-up. We’ll just have to ask that friendly, _identified_, official, Sony employee who frequents these COW forums to get the straight scoop — oh, wait … 🙁

Not that I’d ever use Sony’s Vegas editing app, but I wonder if it has some auto-magical feature which deals with the issue you raise in some miraculous way? And what exactly does FCP do with the files this cam creates? We shall see …

All the best,

– Peter

Just a friendly reminder to all: Please consider filling-in your COW user profile information so we have a better idea who you are, where you’re from, and so forth. It’s the friendly thing to do. Thanks!

[Graeme Nattress]

Remember 24pA allows you extract the frames without decompressing the DV and hence preserving the quality. 24p Normal does not allow that. Yet still Sony don’t understand 24p…..

Graeme

– http://www.nattress.com – Film Effects for FCP

[Jeremiah Black]

I captured 24pA from Panasonic and removed the frames- seamless. Looks nice.

I’ve also captured Sony 24p with a 3:2 pulldown and then removed the pulldown. Not so pretty. recompressed footage. Ick.

Sony’s lack of commitment to good 24p is a dealbreaker for me time and time again.

jeremiah black
dual 2 gig G5
2.5 gigs of RAM
Decklink Extreme capture card

[Deleted User]

Thanks for your comments Jan, Graeme & Jeremiah. Much appreciated.

Question: If “Sony 24p with a 3:2 pulldown” is captured into an uncompressed SD editing system, does that eliminate the recompression disadvantage which you’re discussing?

(I’m more of a shooter than an editor, so apologies for my ignorance.)

Also, apologies to the forum for taking things somewhat off-topic, but perhaps this discussion comparing the approach taken by Panasonic vs. Sony concerning “24p” is helpful (I know it is to me!)

All the best,

– Peter

Just a friendly reminder to all: Please consider filling-in your COW user profile information so we have a better idea who you are, where you’re from, and so forth. It’s the friendly thing to do. Thanks!

[Graeme Nattress]

Sure, if you bring it in over SDI and edit it totally uncompressed. But that’s a pain and it’s expensive. The 24pA Panasonic solution is just so much better.

Graeme

– http://www.nattress.com – Film Effects for FCP