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Attn: Jan and Panasonic: informal poll on removable lense for HVX-200
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But would you see any benefit to the JVC HD100 picture quality if you could attach a Panavision Primo Digital lens to it??
I fully see your point that Panasonic doesn’t manufacture their own lenses, but gets Leica to do it for them, but I don’t see how that equates to being worse value for money than a cheapo starter lens from a.n.other.
Graeme
– http://www.nattress.com – Film Effects for FCP
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[Graeme Nattress] “Say the HVX200 came with no lens and you had to supply your own – just hypothetically speaking – which lens do you put on it and why, and how much does that lens cost? “
Hi Graeme: Let me get out my crystal ball … let’s see … 😉
That’s an incredibly hypothetical question regarding a hypothetical version of a camera which itself won’t ship for several months, and about which Panasonic continues to be somewhat unclear as to the “finalness” of its specifications, but if I had to hazard some guesses:
– Panasonic might offer two or more lenses for use with the camera, similar to what Canon & JVC do with their 1/3″ removable lens cams. I might select one of these for particular projects, depending on the lens’ characteristics (suitability for a project/scene), availability and cost.
– Canon & Fujinon might offer lenses for use with the camera. It’s not difficult to imagine that these lens companies would be happy to start making a range of 1/3″ lenses for a popular, new cam such as the HVX200, given it’s imaging capabilities. Especially if these same lenses could be used on other, similar cams, such as the JVC HD100, and possible future Canon 1/3″ HD cam, too. I don’t think 1/3″ HD cams are going to disappear as a category anytime soon, so the lens makers have some incentive there, too.
– Panasonic might offer a 1/2″ lens adapter (as JVC may do with the HD100), allowing use of high-quality 1/2″ SD lenses and a the new 1/2″ HD lenses from Canon & Fujinon which have recently entered the market. Again, selection of these lenses would depend on their characteristics, availability and cost.
– P+S Technik might offer a version of their mini35 prime lens adaptor for use with the camera. This would be a no-brainer. These units are commonly rented, but some folks buy these babies.
As for what any of the above might cost, um, well I guess it would depend on each lens’ capabilities. There’s no reason why a very, very simple but useful lens should have to sell for more than a couple $K USD (or less), and as a lens’ capabilities go up, so would its price. Nothing new there.
Essentially it’s not much different than the situation of lenses for 16mm motion picture film cameras. My understanding is that these lenses can cost anywhere from a few hundred dollars for a very, very simple lens to many, many tens of thousands of dollars for a wonderful lens. Not to mention that 16mm film is probably more visually demanding than what any current 1/3″ video camera requires, lens-wise.
All the best,
– Peter
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Marketing makes an HD lens an HD lens.
The last great wave of glass/lens breakthroughs came in the late 70’s up to the mid 80’s. Everyone has been making glass and lenses based on those break thoughts. Supercomputers were used by military contractors and addressed the whole optic/glass thing to establish a modern base of just how to design and make glass and lenses.
We still have fantastic lenses from that era and before, the Nikon 105 sticks out. When you shoot large format film, the optical requirements of that stuff,8×10 film is so unbelievably high it blows HD out of the water. What kind of glass and lenses do they use? Lenses designed and built well before HD.
PR is PR, it adds some fun to the mix but in the end its just marketing. If you tired to buy a stereo system from the 80s today you could not, you could only buy a better system at a cheaper price, all the components have been upgraded, we now know more regarding how to use the components. In other words the base line has been raised permanently, the same is true of lenses. All the technology of the past has been applied to the most common lens. The fantastic new (20 years old) coatings etc its all there even in cheep lenses. HD lenses simply are a waste of money, but they look cool because they copy the external appearance of film lenses, most of which are over 10 years old. When was the last time you saw a 35mm film and said, man, that lens sucked.
Chris
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I think youve hit the nail on the head Peter.
Emery
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Mikey- if you really believe that a removable lens is the only difference between a VariCam and an HVX you haven’t done your homework. Check into a little something called CCD for a starter.
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I don’t think that’s so. The more the resolution AND the smaller the imaging area, the better lens you need. That means you need a better lens for HD than you do 35mm film. The HVX200 has a 1/3 imager and HD resolution, and if it uses pixelshift too, it’s going to need an even higher quality of lens than you’d stick on a HDCAM.
HD lenses are not bunk, and high MTF doesn’t come cheap.
https://broadcastengineering.com/mag/broadcasting_hdtv_lenses_mtf/
https://broadcastengineering.com/mag/broadcasting_hdtv_lens_design/I also tried to find the link to a web page where someone does the SD / HD lens comparison, but I can’t find it. Anyone know where it is??
Graeme
– http://www.nattress.com – Film Effects for FCP
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<<<
Stop this, your smarter then that. It’s getting ridiculous.
It’s like Neuro surgeons debating with each other how to apply a band aid.
Strictly speaking about fixed lenses on camcorders. When you see a cut a way of these lenses they contain nowhere near the same integrated designs and corrective optics that even the basic of professional lenses. Nowhere near the mechanical tolerances or technology. I have seen most cut a ways on these. There a compromise in cost and in quality of design. You know that! And I do to. You and I did not just fall of the turnip truck.
A B4 or 1/3 mount was the route to take.
Removable is just not about one lens.
It’s about “” OPTIONS “” to hook up what you want. Be it fiber optics system. Home made lenses for experimental shots. A blender if it works.
It opens the creative doors to possibilities of doing what the artist/cinematographer wants.
These cameras are not being built to shoot Johnny’s birthday party. There being built for professional to use.
It’s about the option to rent very expensive lenses for a few hundred dollars a a day to get that special shot. Renting is how it’ done when comes to expensive lenses in a large degree in the industry.
That option is killed by not having a mount.
The JVC had P+S TECHNIK srtaight to the camera. This is a good ‘RENTAL OPTION”
Many people would do this if given the “” OPTION “”
Why lock this “”OPTION”” out.
Many bitched when they thought P2 was only going to be the option to record HD and you would not have any other “OPTION”. It’s the same thing. Letting us have the “OPTION”
Believe it or not, Lenses are more important then that recording option if there was list of importance of 1 thru 10.
It’s about the “”OPTION””
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But is not the mini35 famous for lowering your resolution, even in SD? I like the idea of controling DOF better, but surely reducing resolution is no solution either? Same with using an SD lens on an HD camera – how is that going to effect the resolution.
Graeme
– http://www.nattress.com – Film Effects for FCP
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But what you’re talking about here is a different camera. You’re talking about something bigger, and although the body costs could be very similar, I still think that if you’re putting a external lens on it, to do justice to the rest you’re looking at a cost greater than that of the whole camera, and that puts the package into a completely new price point.
I would really like the camera you envisage, but there’s no way I could afford it – just like I can’t afford the varicam.
Graeme
– http://www.nattress.com – Film Effects for FCP
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So Noah you going to get condescending and call me ” MIKEY ” now
I thought we had no Issue?
You know, I only care about pushing envelope as far as I can.
But condescending is what your going to do to someone you have NEVER met and have no reason to be childish………..
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