At least FCPX knows how to count – Premiere apparently does not

[Rafael Amador]

For years, the “QTChanger” developer (Vouke Valh) has proved to be one of the guys with better knowledge on TC issues around the COW forums. Just to say that I doubt very much that he has made the newbie mistake of apply 23,98fps instead of 23,976fps to generate TC.

[David McGavran] “I will grab a copy of 5DtoRGB and see what it is up to”
5DtoRGB has a bug.
The Prores files exported with app have something wrong.
When you import them to CinemaTools they can’t be conformed and you get a warning that these files have “temporal compression”. For whatever reason, QT do not see them as “intraframe”.

rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com

[Mike Molenda]

[David McGavran] “I will grab a copy of 5DtoRGB and see what it is up to

Cheers

Dave”

Awesome, thanks.

If it makes any difference, this is not only happening with Canon EOS Quicktimes. For kicks, I created a 23.976 h.264 Quicktime from some XDCAM footage in AME. Then I re-transcoded in 5DtoRGB, generating a starting TC 01:00:00:00. Came into PP with first frame reading 00:59:56:09.

Tried transcoding that first h.264 file to ProRes 422 with both AME and Compressor, no TC issues.

[Walter Soyka]

[Rafael Amador] “That workflow is OK for FC that do not manage Canon stuff natively. No so needed with PP.”

Giving non-timecoded sources proper TC and reel info is not necessary if you’re going to stay entirely within any individual app — but it’s critical for conform. I don’t see a problem with the workflow in general.

[Rafael Amador] “For years, the “QTChanger” developer (Vouke Valh) has proved to be one of the guys with better knowledge on TC issues around the COW forums. Just to say that I doubt very much that he has made the newbie mistake of apply 23,98fps instead of 23,976fps to generate TC.”

I don’t want to speculate because I don’t know all the specifics, but if the Adobe folks say that QtChange’s timecode output could be improved and that they have a patch in place for a future release that works around the issue, I believe them. (I also like the approach of taking ownership and “fixing” it in Premiere anyway, even if another developer’s code is creating the problem.)

Also, this bug isn’t happening with all 23.976 media with timecode — just the timecode output from a few apps. I just tried this to see for myself. Export a 23.976 clip starting at 1:00:00 from FCP. Import it into Premiere Pro, and the timecode is correct. Restripe the TC on that clip with QtChange, and Premiere Pro gets 59:56:09.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events

[David Mcgavran]

Hi Mike,

I downloaded the trial of 5DtoRGB from the app store. Version 1.5.8. We seem to read the timecode correctly as far as I can tell. The timecode track is written with 24000/1001 which is a valid 23.976 timecode and we pull it in correctly. What version are you using?

Of note, it seems one of the reasons people use 5DtoRGB is because it knows how to read the full range yuv out of the 5D footage. Just to be clear you get the same results using Premiere/AE or Adobe Media Encoder. We read full range 601 YUV out of the 5D movies so if you needed to transcode you could also use AME and get the same results.

Cheers

Dave

[Mike Molenda]

I was using the free version (not the full version trial) downloaded from Rarevision’s website (1.5.3b). Good to know they seem to have addressed the issue.

I was actually using 5DtoRGB to run some tests on my footage, comparing it to the source h.264 Quicktime and ProRes Quicktime generated by AME and the FCP E1 plugin. For what it’s worth, I didn’t think the negligible uptick in quality from 5DtoRGB justified the significantly longer transcode time. At least not for the work I do.

Still, it would be nice to have a reliable way in the Suite to generate TC (or at least add reel names) to footage like that shot by the Canon DSLRs. I’m sure you’re not at liberty to say anything, but maybe this is what Prelude is for?

[Robert Brown]

I think Apple is making it quite easy for other guys to have decent customer service. Act like you have a pulse and you’re miles ahead. But seriously, I think a big chunk of the NLE market is there for the taking. I’m doing a lot of Avid work at the moment and I’m appreciating what they do but am also very interested in PPro since I’m such an AE fan. As for FCP X I couldn’t care less. Maybe it has it’s pluses but I see no reason to go through the effort.

But I think Walter Murch was on to something about an open source NLE so editors could steer the ship. I don’t think that’s quite a reality right now but if companies do allow the users to heavily influence the product and build what they want I think it’s win win. I think a partnership sort of speak between user an vendor is an excellent approach. Dictators can take a hike.

Robert Brown
Editor/VFX/Colorist – FCP, Smoke, Quantel Pablo, After Effects, 3DS MAX, Premiere Pro

https://vimeo.com/user3987510/videos

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Robert Brown] “an open source NLE so editors could steer the ship.”

Either that, or the inmates running the asylum. 😉

[Thomas Worth]

Yeah, 1.5.3b had bugs. It’s been superseded by 1.5.8 Lite, which is now available for free in the Mac App Store. I’ve taken the link to 1.5.3b off the Rarevision site, so only 1.5.8 will be available.

The speed issue is going to be addressed in the next major release, as well as other popular gripes. Trust me, I sympathize and have been working hard to address this. After all, I’m a 5DtoRGB user myself!

I’ll also mention that 5DtoRGB has been optimized for use with Adobe products. I’ve tweaked 5DtoRGB’s color rendering to match Adobe’s as closely as possible for those who need to intercut transcoded and native footage. The two are so close that you can literally switch between either (even mid-shot) and the change is imperceptible. This way, editors can edit native H.264 in Premiere along with footage transcoded with 5DtoRGB, all without having to worry about things matching.

[Todd Kopriva]

Here’s an update about the QtChange issue:
https://blogs.adobe.com/premiereprotraining/2012/04/timecode-issue-followup.html

We’ll keep you posted about the second issue brough up in the original post (AAF roundtripping). I expect to have something useful to say about that in not too long.

———————————————————————————————————
Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
product manager, professional video software
After Effects team blog
Premiere Pro team blog
———————————————————————————————————