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Archiving/Consolidating
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Let’s not forget FCP 7 did this, BUT, only with ProRes media. FCP7 didn’t work with long gop/h264. And if you did happen to jam some in there and use it, it didn’t get trimmed. My understanding is that Premiere will trim it, but it has to transcode it, which makes it 10x the size in the first place.
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[Shane Ross] “I onlined a 96 min feature doc cut in Avid, consolidated for online in Resolve.”
Before we sing too many of Avid’s praises. I have tons of archived Avid projects from 2000 to 2006. I can’t access a single one of them. Not to mention, I can’t access the media either. Because they are in Avid’s proprietary .omf file format. Not to mention audio is split from video so even if I could find a program to open the OMF files, reconnecting the two is next to impossible.
Yes at this point I could buy an Avid license and maybe open the projects. But 20 years from now? What if Avid drops support of OMF? Or goes out of business? At least with FCP X I know I’ll be able to access my media, if not the library file.
Long-term archiving is tricky business. And I’m not at all convinced Avid is better at it than FCP X is. FCP X’s weakness is size of archive. Avid’s is proprietary formats.
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[Bret Williams] “Let’s not forget FCP 7 did this, BUT, only with ProRes media. FCP7 didn’t work with long gop/h264. And if you did happen to jam some in there and use it, it didn’t get trimmed. My understanding is that Premiere will trim it, but it has to transcode it, which makes it 10x the size in the first place.”
It worked with any intra-frame codec (not just ProRes), and it would trim inter-frame codecs but it would have to transcode/create new media (which you have to do due to the nature of inter-frame).
[Brett Sherman] “Long-term archiving is tricky business. And I’m not at all convinced Avid is better at it than FCP X is. FCP X’s weakness is size of archive. Avid’s is proprietary formats.”
ProRes is proprietary and Apple has put more walls around it than Avid has around their codecs.
When it comes to digital archiving the traditional concept of long-term archiving doesn’t really exist. It’s more like a never ending series of data migrations every 5-10yrs into current media types and onto current storage mediums.
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[Brett Sherman] “Yes at this point I could buy an Avid license and maybe open the projects. But 20 years from now? What if Avid drops support of OMF? Or goes out of business? At least with FCP X I know I’ll be able to access my media, if not the library file.”
OK…let’s look at Apple’s record in this reguard.
If you shot Panasonic P2 footage, in the DVCPRO HD codec, and used FCP to bring that in…it re-wrapped the MXF files as an MOV file. If you captured DVCPRO HD from tape into FCP Legacy versions…again, wrapped in QT. If you tried to open those QT files on any computer that DID NOT have FCP installed…you’d get a file playing white, and audio. The codec was so tied to FCP, that only computers with FCP installed could play that back. Found that out trying to get footage to a producer for logging.
Oh…and that’s not it. Same with HDV. If you captured HDV with FCP…that QT HDV file would only play on computers with FCP installed. It was THAT proprietary. Thank goodness Apple made a new codec (ProRes) where that wasn’t the case, but for how long?
This was even a stock answer of mine:
#48 – Cannot view DVCPRO HD or HDV or ProRes on my computer.Shane’s Stock Answer #48 – Cannot view DVCPRO HD, HDV or ProRes QT files on your computer.
The DVCPRO HD, HDV and ProRes codecs only comes with FCP. If your computer does not have FCP installed, it cannot view these quicktime files. It doesn’t matter if it is a Mac or PC, without FCP installed, you cannot view these files.
If you need to view ProRes material, you can download the ProRes decoder (mac and windows compatible) for ProRes
https://support.apple.com/downloads/Apple_ProRes_QuickTime_Decoder_1_0_for_Windows.
https://support.apple.com/downloads/Apple_ProRes_QuickTime_Decoder_1_0_for_Mac
If your footage was captured as DVCRO HD you can buy the Calibrated DVCPRO HD decoder:
https://www.calibratedsoftware.com/QDVCProHD.asp
HDV, XDCAM? Calibrated has you covered too:
https://www.calibratedsoftware.com/QXD.asp
If you have MXF files from a P2 camera and you need to view the footage on a computer without FCP, you can download P2CMS from Panasonic:
https://www.panasonic.com/business/provideo/p2-hd/downloads-and-updates.asp
Or you need the other party to compress the footage into a format your computer can play, like H.264.
So now you have all these people who shot on P2, or DVCPRO HD tape, or HDV…who brought in the footage with FCP…saved that footage ONLY, and didn’t back up the P2 cards, or threw out the tapes. And, Surprise surprise, they are stuck. FCX will open them, and computers with FCX…but that’s it! Back when P2 first came out and was one of the first tapeless formats, people would ingest the footage, and throw out the card offloads, or just erase the cards. “Hey, I have the footage, no need to keep it twice!” I had to warn about this so often, it should have been a stock answer. I tell people TO THIS DAY to keep the camera originals.
Those archived projects aren’t openable in the current FCP either…need an old one to do that, obviously. So that exactly the same situation you are talking about…with the old media. I DO wonder if Avid can even open those older bins with the sequence, and then batch capture the footage from tape…not needing to rely on the archived footage.
But with so many companies tossing out their tapes AFTER they capture all the footage (something I am seeing more and more lately)…I don’t think so. And then they’ll have captured in a codec that’s currrent for the day they captured, BUT…will get out of date fast. I’ve worked on archival docs where the original tapes are gone, and the vendor provided me with a “high quality avi” file…640×360, with interlacing baked in. Original tapes disposed of.
Shane
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[Brett Sherman] “Yes at this point I could buy an Avid license and maybe open the projects. But 20 years from now? What if Avid drops support of OMF? Or goes out of business? At least with FCP X I know I’ll be able to access my media, if not the library file.”
Isn’t that true for any software?
I mean you can’t open FCP 7 projects in FCP X without requiring 3rd party intervention.
While you still can install FCP 7 on some modern systems, eventually the newer OS will prevent that.With Avid at least you can trim the media and the codecs are cross-platform.
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[Shane Ross] “Thank goodness Apple made a new codec (ProRes) where that wasn’t the case, but for how long?”
When ProRes was first released in 2007 it was only made available with Final Cut Studio. In 2008 Apple released a read-only version of the codec for Mac and Windows (but I think it only worked with Apple’s QT media player). ProRes has been out over a decade but Apple has made sure that support for the codec on Windows is spotty at best.
By contrast, AFAIK Avid has released their codecs (both read and write) for free dating back to at least Meridien. Avid also worked with SMPTE to make DNxHD and DNxHR compliant to the VC-3 standard.
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[Dom Silverio] “Isn’t that true for any software?”
That you can’t access the media itself without the software? No that’s largely only true of Avid. Are there cases with FCP? Apparently, I’ve just never run into those. Maybe I’m lucky with the codecs I used. I just have had no issues accessing media created in FCP.
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[Andrew Kimery] “ProRes is proprietary and Apple has put more walls around it than Avid has around their codecs.”
Codec is only one of the issues. Container formatting is another. Avid went with an MXF implementation that common third party applications can’t handle. And they insisted for a long time in splitting audio and video into different files which creates additional problems.
Now it is true my Avid knowledge is maybe dated. So maybe it has improved, but it was a nightmare for a long time trying to access Avid media.
It should also be said if you don’t have your Avid Project or it got corrupted, you are SOL for accessing the media.
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[Shane Ross] “OK…let’s look at Apple’s record in this reguard.”
I guess I’ve been lucky. I’m not saying Apple’s history is perfect here. But at least there are options. As far as I know there are no ways to open and Avid .omf or .mxf file without Media Composer.
I guess I come down as saying it’s better to have only some of your media inaccessible as opposed to ALL of your media inaccessible.
It should also be said even if you have Media Composer, if you don’t have your Avid Project or it got corrupted, you are SOL for accessing the media.
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[Brett Sherman] “I guess I’ve been lucky. I’m not saying Apple’s history is perfect here. But at least there are options. As far as I know there are no ways to open and Avid .omf or .mxf file without Media Composer.”
VLC player will open them. As will EditReady….and the media player from Digital Rebellion.
[Brett Sherman] “It should also be said even if you have Media Composer, if you don’t have your Avid Project or it got corrupted, you are SOL for accessing the media.”
Incorrect. Adobe Premiere can open them, so can Resolve (that’s one way to online, consolidate the cut, export an AAF and bring the media into Resolve, and the AAF, and there is your sequence). IN FACT, I think FCX can even read the media files Avid makes.
Shane
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