Apple’s strong Mac sales

[Mark Dobson]

[Thomas Frank] “Why are struggling with your 2008 Mac Pro?
No issues here with the 2008 models. You do have it packed with RAM and a good graphic card,correct?
I see this issue cross the board no matter what system Mac or PC, single to quad core Chips, it’s not going be fast with only 4 GB RAM.”

Well I’ve got 2 x 2.8 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon with 10GB Ram and an ATI Radeon HD 5770 1024 MB card.

I’m now running Lion – had more problems under Snow Leopard and I like to keep up with the puck.

But are you saying that all Macs or PCs struggle with NLE work?

I’m editing full HD 1080p and everything is fine until I start manipulating the clips, colour correction, FX. transform etc. Then it get really gluey, time starts going very slowly as you wait for even simple things to happen – for example zooming in.

Maybe I should go for a 720p workflow and see what happens although anecdotal advice is to stay at full res until the final delivery which for me is Internet, DVD and conference projection.

[Thomas Frank]

No I am not saying that in general that computers run slow doing NLE. Well depends on the software compared to the 4 applications we have the slowest is FCP7, Premiere CS 5.5, FCPX and MC 6 I find equally.
But there is a trend that the FCPX guys are getting edit out faster the MC guys.
Anyway what I was referring to was I hear many complaining about how slow there machine is with only 4 – 6 GB.
In my book 8GB is the minimum 16GB standard for the work horses.
Adding FX and color correction will slow things down, FCPX is doing better here.

Maybe SGI needs to come back with a newer MIPS generation. They had the best OS! 🙂

[Phil Hoppes]

Not to burst anyone’s bubble too big but try to keep a perspective of what the high end workstation market (ie MacPro, et.al.) is to the total overall market. Just a quick Google and one can get some rough back-of-the-envelope numbers without paying a gazillion dollars to Gartner.
From the (Gartner link we see the Q4 PC Worldwide shipments at around 92million give or take. From this report we see the Q3 unit workstation volume was around 1Million units. That translates that workstations hold a whopping 1% unit market share and the overall yearly trend has been down not up. For the sake of argument let’s assume that it at least stays flat.

While Apple is making substantial gains overall in the US market and the global world market, coming from a less than 5% market share years back to now around 11%, in the workstation market they are a footnote. Linux and Windows machines dominate the workstation market and while I don’t have access to the numbers I would be very surprised if Apple had even close to 0.5% market share. This would translate to around 200K MacPro Units a year. Just looking at the Apple web site a base QuadCore is $2500 and a base 12Core is $5000. Split the difference and say the ASP of all MacPro’s is $3500. At 200K units that’s around 700M annual. Thats a big number ….. until you compare it to Apples total annual revenue of 108B. Then you see it is less than 1%. Apple currently runs around 3% R&D as a percentage of sales last time I looked. Assuming this works across the board that would translate to about 21M/yr for the MacPro group. Figure an average engineering salary around 120K/yr that roughly translates to about 175 people to support MacPro’s. My first guess is this sounds actually pretty high to me having worked in the PC industry for over 20 years but lets use that number.

The real question Tim Cook and the rest of Apple management are asking themselves I’m sure is what is the opportunity cost of having those 175 engineers working on MacPro’s where we could have them working on iPad’s, iTV’s or some other new product. When you look at just what has been done for Apple revenue because of iPad sales alone it does not take rocket science to see that there may be better product opportunities to be spending your precious R&D dollars.

I’d like nothing better than to see a new MacPro and MacPro line but the reality is, it serves a niche market that has seen continuous decline. Apple’s specific market share in that market is insignificant. Apple’s popular consumer desktop models get more and more powerful every year and are rapidly approaching the point that for a large portion (NOT ALL mind you) of the MacPro users a top end iMac will more than do the job they need. As reported in many journals, the profit margins on MacPros for Apple is not that great so….. I don’t believe it really is a question of if MacPro’s will be dropped, simply a matter of when.

Just my 2cents.

[Craig Seeman]

I had an interesting “speed” experience yesterday although not related to FCPX. It was enlightening though.

I was doing a simple live stream with Livestream Procaster and Logitech C910 webcam.
I tested on
MacPro 2008 8 Core (2×4), 8 GB RAM, Radeon 5770
MacBook Pro late 2011 i7 Quad Core, 4GB RAM, Radeon 6750.

Webcam was running 720p30.
MBP CPU% 12%
MP CPU% 25%

That the MBP was using half the CPU% was impressive. That doesn’t relate to NLE use directly but it really shows how far things have come. To me, that Apple hasn’t announced EOL for MacPros means they are waiting to do something with the new IvyBridge processors. Whether the new box is a MacPro or a new form factor, I have to think something is coming otherwise there wouldn’t be much reason to wait for Apple to kill the MacPro.

[Craig Seeman]

[Phil Hoppes] “I don’t believe it really is a question of if MacPro’s will be dropped, simply a matter of when. “

But don’t assume there won’t be a different model replacing it.
The problems with workstations are that not only are few sold, they tend to have a longer lifespan than other computers. There’s demand for a higher powered computer but the MacPro doesn’t have broad reach. That’s why I think it’ll be replaced by a more powerful computer (Ivy Bridge Xeon?) sans most PCIe and Internal HD. A lower priced computer in 8, 12, 16 core config, 2 16xPCIe slots (for GPU, etc), 1SSD, 1HD, No Optical drive, 4 Thunderbolt ports. The box’s Rack Unit form will have multiple uses ranging server to modular workstation.

[Thomas Frank]

Interesting theory but then you saying the Mac Pro is the iPod shuffle in Apples computer line up.
So we will see new one soon. 🙂

[Bill Davis]

[Thomas Frank] “Interesting theory but then you saying the Mac Pro is the iPod shuffle in Apples computer line up.
So we will see new one soon. :)”

Don’t forget – one view of the iPod shuffle is that it’s merely the “gateway drug” into the Apple gestalt.

“Wow, Bobby, this thing is tiny, beautiful, and ROCKS!”

: )

“Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions.”-Justice O’Connor

[Chris Harlan]

[Phil Hoppes] “I’d like nothing better than to see a new MacPro and MacPro line but the reality is, it serves a niche market that has seen continuous decline. Apple’s specific market share in that market is insignificant. Apple’s popular consumer desktop models get more and more powerful every year and are rapidly approaching the point that for a large portion (NOT ALL mind you) of the MacPro users a top end iMac will more than do the job they need. As reported in many journals, the profit margins on MacPros for Apple is not that great so….. I don’t believe it really is a question of if MacPro’s will be dropped, simply a matter of when.

Just my 2cents.”

Well, this may happen, but I think it would be a bad idea for Apple since they have their own operating system. I should think it would be important for them to have high-end computing, even if they have to sell Mac Pros–or whatever replaces them–at a loss. The OS needs “trucks,” and without them will erode.

[Neil Sadwelkar]

I think there is likely to be one more MacPro. The reason it’s long overdue is that the current top of the line i7 iMac is so fast and featured that a MacPro would make sense only if it is faster and more featured than the existing iMac.

And that will happen only when newer chipsets and CPUs are available in volume.

There is also a likelihood that the MacPro in its current form could be discontinued. So, maybe, the ‘new MacPro’ will be like a larger Mac Mini. 1-2 PCIe slots, TBolt ports, onboard GPU etc. Sort of, like an iMac without a screen but with PCIe slots.

Another reason there will be a new MacPro or MacPro replacement is because developers who write apps and drivers for the Mac, need a Pro machine to work on. Something that can interface with large amounts of storage. And scientific labs and universities use Macs with a variety of add-ons in the shape of PCIe cards. And, of course, the broadcast and film industry needs a Pro machine with capture cards. The iMac is not any of these.

Yet another pointer to a Pro desktop machine, is the new TBolt display. Which does not work with the current MacPro. It makes sense with a (future) system that can use it.

Since this is an FCP X forum, it can also be argued that since FCP X, the flagship editing system from Apple does not support any PCIe card, there is no more need for a system that supports PCIe cards. So just like Apple abandoned the floppy, ADB ports, optical drives and other such legacy devices, they may be on the way to abandon a system that uses PCIe.

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Neil Sadwelkar
neilsadwelkar.blogspot.com
twitter: fcpguru
FCP Editor, Edit systems consultant
Mumbai India

[Kim Krause]

rolls royce is a niche market, but i wouldn’t mind driving around in one. what is everyone so down on a specialty product? not everyone needs a high end tower for their work. the reason most p.c’s are sold as towers is because they are cheap and people have different uses for them so want to kit them out differently. not every pc tower sold is being used for editing or high end work. people just like to have a tower machine even for gaming. macs towers on the other hand are designed for high end work and represent a smaller (niche) market. put it in simpler terms: if 100 pcs are towers probably only about 30 are used for high end video work. out of 100 mac pros you will probably find around 80 of them being used for high end work. don’t be fooled by the numbers, it’s the percentages that tell the story. also remember that very soon in the next few years many of those pc towers will be outdated and replaced with laptops or netbooks. apple already has a clear lead in this area! then we will see a much different story.