Apple Products Decertified as Environmentally Sound

[Patrick Murphy]

“Again, this is straight from the horses mouth, but do you think Apple lies about all of this?: https://www.apple.com/environment/”

Well, I wouldn’t put it past them. But I’ll admit that Apple’s web presentation is very slick and reassuring.

However check this NYT article from Sept. 2011,
https://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/02/technology/apple-suppliers-causing-environmental-problems-chinese-group-says.html/

I saw a presentation in the US by one of the named sources in that article, Mr. May Jun of the Chinese Institute for Public and Environmental Affairs, several months prior to this article. It was mostly about general environmental conditions in China and as you might expect it was pretty grim. What surprised me was that at the end of the presentation he devoted about 10 minutes to Apple in particular. He said that while US corporations tended to be fairly responsible in dealing with suppliers, Apple was uniquely uncooperative and unresponsive to Chinese groups who were trying to address environmental issues.

The Institute published a special report on Apple which is available here: https://www.ipe.org.cn/En/about/report.aspx?s_text=Apple It’s much more detailed and on point than the Times article.

So just in this one area, it’s fairly clear that trusting Apple is a fairly dicey proposition.

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Patrick Murphy] “It was mostly about general environmental conditions in China and as you might expect it was pretty grim.”

Yes, I’ve been to a couple of Chinese manufacturing towns. Grim is an understatement and it is a much bigger than Apple, although they seem to be taking a brunt of the finger pointing lately probably due to their financial successes and public popularity. The folks at Apple certainly wield the influence and power to change it. They have at least paid lip service to it, I don’t know what becomes of it.

I still wonder, since Foxconn produces a lot of electronics (like intel motherboards), and even smaller manufacturing companies produce many of the specialized parts of electronics, what computer company is any better or not as “guilty”? I am genuinely curious. I’d love to be able to know right where to go a “responsible” computer, but since a computer is such an outsourced amalgamation of Asian manufactured parts, is it really all of Apple’s fault? When you go to look for a a different brand of computer, and you can literally get a laptop for $400, are the parts in that computer anymore environmentally responsible? How do we know? Where the working conditions better than Foxconn? How do we know?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/michelle-chen/apple-factory-china_b_1655527.html

We’ve had these conversation before. It is a very complicated problem, and extends to one of the overall problems of a global supply chain, and that is exploitation of local laws and governments.

[Patrick Murphy] “The Institute published a special report on Apple which is available here: https://www.ipe.org.cn/En/about/report.aspx?s_text=Apple It’s much more detailed and on point than the Times article.

So just in this one area, it’s fairly clear that trusting Apple is a fairly dicey proposition.”

Thanks, I will check these out.

If you were to look around, what other company would you trust?

[Joseph Owens]

[Patrick Murphy] “One may argue that these are legitimate preoccupations of a modern profit driven corporation”

Well, these are the concerns of a modern, profit-driven society that is predicated on consumerism and the general paradigm of planned and perceived obsolescence. We’re the suckers who go along with it, who buy into it. You can say, oh, well, its Moore’s Law at work, and everything’s getting, better, faster, higher, stronger… …. really?

Like the stampede to own the latest and greatest whatever, otherwise “you suck”. Take FCX. (Please.. ba dump-bump-tssh). Does the same thing, but ignites a textbook firestorm of fashionista debate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLBE5QAYXp8 “The Story of Stuff”, from 2005. I love that it starts with an IPod. May as well begin with the obvious.

Tone is a tad shrill, perhaps, but I dare you to disagree with the premise.

The piece states that only 1% of all goods survive more than six months, not years, before being trashed…. have to wonder if that has changed in the intervening 7 years. Whether the glass volume is 50% of anything won’t matter, because the real number now is “the 1%”. If there’s only a drop of water in the glass, it is actually mostly empty, not partially full.

jPo

“I always pass on free advice — its never of any use to me” Oscar Wilde.

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Joseph Owens] “If there’s only a drop of water in the glass, it is actually mostly empty, not partially full.”

I guess it’s time for all of us to quit and go home early. Luckily, I get to walk home avoiding the use of fossil fuels.

“When life gives you lemons, sometimes you say ‘f*ck the lemons” and bail.”

-Chuck the Surfing Instructor

[Andrew Kimery]

There’s also this wrinkle to it that I don’t think was mentioned yet:

“The design may well be comprised of “highly recyclable aluminum and glass” — but my friends in the electronics recycling industry tell me they have no way of recycling aluminum that has glass glued to it like Apple did with both this machine and the recent iPad.”

https://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/06/opinion-apple-retina-displa/

[Franz Bieberkopf]

[Jeremy Garchow] “… since a computer is such an outsourced amalgamation of Asian manufactured parts, is it really all of Apple’s fault?”

Jeremy,

This is a typical business strategy to avoid responsibility for social and environmental matters – the underlying principle is that if you can distance oneself through corporate structure, subcontracting, foreign production, then you can distance yourself from responsibility. It generally works to certain degree.

The question to think about is precisely that: who is responsible? You seem to be suggestion Apple bears no responsibility when it invests so heavily in this production and extracts such large profits from same.

[Jeremy Garchow] “… what computer company is any better or not as “guilty”?”

Maybe they are all the same: Apple – just like all the others. Something to bear in mind the next time you hear claims about “innovation”.

Your posts seem to be alluding to a feeling that there is nothing you can do but accept the world as it is presented to you. Do you really feel that way?

Franz.

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Franz Bieberkopf] “Your posts seem to be alluding to a feeling that there is nothing you can do but accept the world as it is presented to you. Do you really feel that way?”

Of course not. Although I’m a dipshit, I’m a very practical dipshit.

I’m asking real questions above, Mr Bieberkopf. I haven’t heard anything.

Say, I quit Apple. Their policies and decisions have pushed me over the edge and I’m fed up.

So now that I have theoretically decided not to give Apple any more money, can you honestly tell me what product I can buy that will be better for the life of everyone involved in the supply chain, and allow me to still be a video editor that uses a computer? Or am I just trading evils?

Everytime I ask this question, it seems it turns in to rhetoric. I am asking sincerely.

There’s no question this move that Apple is pulling is very odd. It is the one thing that doesn’t reconcile with me. Ending fcs3, I get it; pushing for better working conditions after bad press, as much as it sucks, I get it; being secretive; I get it; giving deeper employee discounts and wage increases for retail location employees only when asked, I get it.

Gluing a battery and screen to a laptop case to save a bit of girth if it really truly does make it impossible to recycle after being a fairly responsible company? I’m not quite getting it. So, as that starts to not make sense, the next logical question is what does make sense?

[Patrick Murphy]

“If you were to look around, what other company would you trust?”

Well, I’ve looked into it somewhat, and so far I’ve not found evidence that any other manufacturer is particularly admirable in this area. Responsible manufacturing is more expensive, and at this time, there doesn’t seem to be any competitive advantage to environmentally responsible behavior.

Which might seem to let Apple, and it’s consumers off the hook. Except that Apple claims to be responsible when there’s ample evidence this is mostly malarkey. Additionally, Apple’s future trajectory in terms of system design and corporate commitment raises even more questions.

[Franz Bieberkopf]

[Jeremy Garchow] “So, as that starts to not make sense, the next logical question is what does make sense?”

Jeremy,

That question is not a bad start – it admits that doing nothing is probably not the wisest course of action. Unfortunately there isn’t a simple, easy answer right now (which in itself is enough to dissuade some people from doing anything).

NYT article (2009) outlining the issue::
https://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/25/business/energy-environment/25iht-rbogelect.html?_r=1

“Accepting the waste is just a start. Electronic waste is often shipped to developing countries for recycling, a practice that environmentalists tried, with limited success, to outlaw in 1995 through the so-called BAN Amendment to the Basel Convention, an international treaty on hazardous waste disposal. … The TakeBack coalition is pushing for greater openness in recycling programs because “in an arena where there’s so much cheating going on, transparency helps improve some of that,” said Ms. Kyle.

2010 Statement from Greenpeace:
https://www.charity-charities.org/news.php?artid=818248

“This is not an issue that one company can solve, no matter how ambitious their takeback initiative,” says Harrell. “But this can’t be dealt with on an industry-wide basis either. It needs to be on a government basis, so we’re looking for companies that are trying to move the politics on national takeback policies.”

So the pieces seem to be full manufacturer responsibility and transparency in the recycling chain – these will require government mandates and third-party audits.

That in itself might suggest ways to you that you can contribute to those solutions.

And I hope you’ve written Apple about your concerns.

But one of the most immediate things that you seem to overlook is the EPEAT list being discussed. These are the companies (including computer makers) that participate:

https://ww2.epeat.net/CompanyList.aspx

Have you really not looked at editing with equipment from those companies?

[Jeremy Garchow] “Everytime I ask this question, it seems it turns in to rhetoric. I am asking sincerely.”

You might be asking the wrong people. Or you might have to forge your own. Either way I’m sure there are others here who would be interested in the answers you come up with. The solutions need to be long term, large scale, and also short term and personal.

Franz.

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Franz Bieberkopf] “Have you really not looked at editing with equipment from those companies?”

I think you are misunderstanding me, and I’m sure it’s my fault.

I am happy to continue this conversation offline. It goes well beyond the scope of FCPX, and is leaving the scope of this forum.

I’m not quite sure what’s better, making really cheap computers out of really cheap plastic and having an EPEAT certification for disassembly because if you drop it it disassembles itself, or glueing a battery to highly recyclable piece of metal, and sending in to Apple’s recycle partners where they have the secret technique to undue the glue. I just don’t know, and I’m not sure that information is out there.

I am all for making things better for everyone and taking responsibility, but I am one person. Buying an HP doesn’t make me a better person or make it any “better” for the environment. Buying a computer that is made entirely in Chicago and from locally sourced parts would be totally awesome, but it’s impossible. EPEAT is one small aspect of it, and since Apple’s parts are still highly recyclable despite the glue, I’m not sure what’s better. I would like them to answer. I have “understood” their business decisions and practices even if it hurts me in the long run. Such is life. If it is true that if I send a new Apple product to a recycler and they throw it in a landfill due to a wad of glue, then certainly, it is very confusing.

editstation at gmail dot com