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Apple – please focus on FCP X stability!
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[Bret Williams] “Perhaps you should try using the native files. Why would you want to increase the drive space used and complicate the database. Sure it shouldn’t be a problem, but sounds like it is. If you’ve got to convert everything to ProRes, I feel like there isn’t much compelling reason to use X over legacy.”
Sorry, but … nope. H264 native editing is terrible IMHO, even in all the apps that supposedly handle it well. The second issue is that I have to have something with valid TC and reel ID numbers. This project is graded on Baselight and the colorist needs an EDL and source clips that match. Native H264 is fine for quick and dirty convention coverage or maybe news clips that you never have to revisit, but that’s not most of my work. I have files for projects shot with 5D cameras from the very beginning of those cameras that I still go back to. It’s essential that I have a proper way of dealing with them. My SOP has been to convert to ProRes and add valid TC/reel numbers. Makes it very easy to track and the edits become very repeatable. Drive space isn’t an issue and I don’t see how it would complicate the database.
Most of my projects are mixed formats, including 5D, C300, Alexa and P2 clips.
Please don’t take this as a criticism of your comments, but I view native editing as an often counter-productive concept and it’s one of the things I dislike about Premiere Pro. If you have to work outside of the NLE in a mixture of other apps, “native” is often the cause of many problems. Just look at the PITA issues Avid folks are dealing with using AMA for full-blown editing. Native media editing is why the Send to SG function in PPro requires a DPX intermediate render as compared with a more fluid FCP7/Color round trip.
The reason to use X at this point on this project is as a proof-of-concept. If this particular facility wants to go with X, then it’s got to be used in a real-world test to figure out where the bodies are buried. Right now it’s “iffy”. I happen to like a lot about X over 7, but there may still be too many deal-breakers. So this is a matter of testing whether or not X is ready for the workflow, not whether it has real advantages. For me on this job, I got more done in the allotted schedule than bid, but the same would have been true with 7, so I don’t view X as providing any speed advantage in getting done more quickly.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Oliver Peters] “Yikes! That doesn’t sound very promising. You are describing something that has limited functionality for most facilities within a 5-year time frame.”
I’m making an educated guess, but yeah. If Apple would just let us store the Renders separately from the Projects, then facilities could have much smaller (and affordable) high-IOPS-optimized shared (or local) storage for the Project and Event databases and the usual large-capacity stream-optimized shared storage for the media.
The reason no other NLE has these problems is they are only writing to a flat project file upon user command, not constantly writing to a database for every little action the user takes in the app.
Best,
Andy -
[Andrew Richards] “The reason no other NLE has these problems is they are only writing to a flat project file upon user command, not constantly writing to a database for every little action the user takes in the app.”
I seem to remember that Fast/Liquid was in a constant save condition AND it had true background rendering. Not bad for a 32-bit Windows app that had none of these issues, as I recall.
It might be that part of the problem with X is that it’s actually writing several databases for the Events and Projects. Not just a single project file. One thing I noticed was that when I was adding a lot of favorites (which included writing the selection to a smart collection in parallel) was that it was quite easy for me, as the operator, to outrun the application.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Oliver Peters] “I seem to remember that Fast/Liquid was in a constant save condition AND it had true background rendering. Not bad for a 32-bit Windows app that had none of these issues, as I recall.
It might be that part of the problem with X is that it’s actually writing several databases for the Events and Projects. Not just a single project file. One thing I noticed was that when I was adding a lot of favorites (which included writing the selection to a smart collection in parallel) was that it was quite easy for me, as the operator, to outrun the application.”
Another issue might lie with HFS+ (I didn’t see if you specified what type of filesystem your client’s FibreJet SAN is built upon, I assume it is HFS+). It is limited in its ability to do more than one I/O action at a time (as I understand it), so that can also be a limiting factor, maybe even the most significant limiting factor. I wonder if you had an Xsan filesystem on the same hardware if my hypothesis about IOPS would go out the window because the filesystem can multithread I/O actions when properly configured…
Best,
Andy -
[Andrew Richards] “I didn’t see if you specified what type of filesystem your client’s FibreJet SAN is built upon, I assume it is HFS+”
The finder shows the write volume as Mac OS Extended.
[Andrew Richards] “It is limited in its ability to do more than one I/O action at a time (as I understand it), so that can also be a limiting factor, maybe even the most significant limiting factor.”
Why would this be any different than any other locally-connected external drive, like a Promise or even an internal set of RAID-0 drives?
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Oliver Peters] “The finder shows the write volume as Mac OS Extended.”
Yep, that’s HFS+.
[Oliver Peters] “Why would this be any different than any other locally-connected external drive, like a Promise or even an internal set of RAID-0 drives?”
If other SAN users are reading (or writing, if this array is sliced or partitioned) from the same array while you are working, it would impact the array’s ability to deal with the heavy IOPS writes associated with the FCPX database files. If you are the only one using the array, then it is essentially no different from local-attached storage and that probably rules out HFS+ as the culprit if you don’t see these issues with similar local-attached storage. It really depends on the architecture of this particular SAN.
Best,
Andy -
[Andrew Richards] ” It really depends on the architecture of this particular SAN.”
It’s 64TB partitioned into 5 volumes – 4 workstations plus FC Server controlling the 5th. Each station has write authority to one partition and all others mounted in read-only mode. During most of this session time, I’ve been the only operator accessing the system. No particular ongoing processes occurring with FC Server, except what it might routinely be doing in the background.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
It struggles with titles, AND with still photos too, especially if the stills are bigger than 1920×1080. That gets annoying for doc work.
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Los Angeles Cameraman
Canon C300 (x2), Zeiss CP.2 lenses, P2 Varicam, etc.
http://www.lacameraman.com -
Oliver – Regarding your OT Completely Agreed. FCP X has been really hit and miss with clients. Sometimes it is flawless. I was putting together a rather complicated compositing project, brining new footage and images left and right, titles, exporting and it was flying. The next day however, I couldn’t keep it from crashing several times an hour.
One thing that makes an app worthy of pro use in my book is its ability to be solid and predictable. Flashy features are truly secondary in my book. By that definition some times Final Cut is pro, some times it is not. I believe that FCP X will either be a triumph or a failure — not based on features but on stability.
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T. Payton
OneCreative, Albuquerque -
[T. Payton] “By that definition some times Final Cut is pro, some times it is not. I believe that FCP X will either be a triumph or a failure — not based on features but on stability.”
This morning, I couldn’t get the project open without FCP X crashing. The minute I moved the cursor into the timeline area it froze and I had to force quit. The solution was that before I did anything else, I immediately went to the menu and turned off all skimming functions. Then it worked fine. I turned them back on and all was OK. Go figure! Things like that have got to be fixed SOON.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com
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