Anyone using variable frame rate DVCPRO HD?

[Paul Mogg]

Thank you for posting Gary, so you are saying that the issue is that Harware based decompression and scaling from 960*720 to 1280*720 is far superior to doing it in software, I appreciate you clearing that up. I can see how that could be true. If it were just the decompression at issue I would maybe take odds with that idea, but I can see how the hardware scaling could be superior, unfortunately I don’t own a deck to test it with myself so I’ll take your word for it.

May I ask what kind of differences in the picture are you seeing in decompressing and scaling through hardware versus software? Are they pronounced or extremely subtle? Are you still finding this to be true when comparing with the new FCP 5.0 (and later) DVCPRO HD codec, which seems to have dramatically improved display and rendering quality under FCP?

The reason I’m asking is that I’m in the middle of editing a feature and need to determine what advantage I might gain from recapturing the original footage via SDI versus the Firewire capture I used, I’m not seeing any artifacts in the footage that I would have thought are atrributable to scaling problems, so I’m intrigued.

Many thanks,

Paul

[Gary Adcock]

[Paul Mogg] “ay I ask what kind of differences in the picture are you seeing in decompressing and scaling through hardware versus software? Are they pronounced or extremely subtle? Are you still finding this to be true when comparing with the new FCP 5.0 (and later) DVCPRO HD codec, which seems to have dramatically improved display and rendering quality under FCP?”

That would depend on the content, and every shooter is different, every shoot is different. Remember too that what you add in post may not compress in the same fashion as it does in the Varicam. Again because the camera is Designed to give the user the highest quality of compression to DVCProHD and it does this in hardware not software, I tend to choose the path of least resistance. I also prefer Hardware because it happens in Realtime, as it should be for HD.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD and Film Consultation

[Luca De luca]

hi all

I would like to know if someone have tried with fcp5 to capture with a aj-hd1200 a tape shooted at 720p25 via firewire, I haven’t found a way to let it recognize the 25fps frames, it always acquire at 59.94 and the frame rate converter doesn’t allow the 25 …

any ideas …

[Clay Coleman]

Have you gotten anywhere with that problem (converting 720p60 caputre to 25?) I have a project shot on 720p25 and am desperate for a solution.

Thanx,
Clay

[Gary Adcock]

[Clay Coleman] “Have you gotten anywhere with that problem (converting 720p60 caputre to 25?) I have a project shot on 720p25 and am desperate for a solution.”
[luca de luca] “I would like to know if someone have tried with fcp5 to capture with a aj-hd1200 a tape shooted at 720p25 via firewire, I haven’t found a way to let it recognize the 25fps frames, it always acquire at 59.94 and the frame rate converter doesn’t allow the 25 …”

720p25 is not a native frame rate on the varicam, it cannot be extracted from the 1200a via firewire as the frame extraction is would be 720p25/50/60 ( that is 25 frames divided by 50 frame divided by the 60 frames recorded to tape).

there are only 2 ways to extract the data correctly 1) Using the Hardware FRC, or 2) a 3rd party product such as the AJA Kona 2.

the steps with the current Kona 2 and Kona LH drivers are

change your easy setup to the 720p23.98 DVCProHD Varicam

Duplicate this setting and RENAME IT < 720p25 DVCProHD>

change EVERY frame rate setting in the “Capture Settings” and “Sequence Settings” to be 25fps

Field order is set to NONE (we are working progressive)

Save the project then restart FCP

use that Easy Setup and go

From IBC

Gary Adcock
Studio37
HD and Film Consultation
Chicago, IL

[Clay Coleman]

Gary,

thanks for your input. Yes, understand much better now, I’m going to be recapturing with the big Panasonic HD deck through the hardware frame converter. At the moment, its the only solution. Actually, I’ve worked with the hardware frc in the past and had no problems. What I didn’t realize is that the software frame rate conversion only supports 23,98, 29,97 and 59,94. I had assumed that it worked the same as the hardware method. (buzzz) Wrong answer.

Still, I don’t grasp why that is the case. Especially since the technology exists within the hardware conversion to accommodate 1080i50 and from there to 720p. Reading around the posts on various forums, it’s quite evident that all us guys in PAL-land are very frustrated with this situation. Why did Panasonic/Apple make it only work for NTSC users??? I was ready to buy the AJ1200A, and rented one to give it a test drive. Not anymore. I’ll just have to stick with the hardware route on a rental basis until the software frc gets an update. Supposedly that is in the making. It would sure make the AJ1200A more attractive to a lot of users.

Best,
Clay

[Gary Adcock]

[Clay Coleman] “What I didn’t realize is that the software frame rate conversion only supports 23,98, 29,97 and 59,94. I had assumed that it worked the same as the hardware method. (buzzz) Wrong answer.”
correct it only natively supports 24, 30 and 60fps rates, these are the only frame rates accessible over Firewire. thatrs why they made the hardware FRC.

[Clay Coleman] “Still, I don’t grasp why that is the case. Especially since the technology exists within the hardware conversion to accommodate 1080i50 and from there to 720p.” NOT inside the camera, and that is what is controlling this issue, at this time.

[Clay Coleman] “Why did Panasonic/Apple make it only work for NTSC users?” It is not an apple problem ( beyond the software FRC which was written by apple) This was a decision at Panasonic and my guess it was based on the lack of interest in PAL countries for HD of any type. Even this year at IBC, less than 1/2 of all the people I talked to planned on moving to HD in the next 2 years. Why build a product when it will not sell.
Secondly it was built to mimic film,and film is a 24 frame medium not 25.

From IBC

Gary Adcock
Studio37
HD and Film Consultation
Chicago, IL