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Any Recommendations on How to Make a Marketing Video
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I’d say, don’t get too aggressive here. Everybody has to start somewhere. Suppose the question is: “Hi, I want to learn what it takes to make a good mkt video for engineering tools. Then I’d say: do not focus on the tools, since you are starting. Tools and equipment grow as you grow. Any camera and computer will do to learn how to tell your story. And what is your story ? That is the main question you have to ask when you produce your video – or, what is the question the buyers of the engineering tools have. Try to answer that question, and you are on a good path to make a good video. Now, buyers of engineering tools have one special thing: they want to know how it works, what it does and want to see that the tool is the best fit for their needs. They often look very close to technical details. And you have to find a way to show the technical details at a glance. But get those details perfect. The technical details of high-end engineering tools are their main selling point. Very often you may want to incorporate animations in your video to explain that.
Sam
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Wow Marv, you are an angry fella. Or is it Andrea? I note you only joined recently….
As another individual has already commented, this is a professional forum for mutually sharing advice. I don’t think I’m being unfair to say that a question from a complete novice that is asking how to do the same job that I have trained and learned over an 8 year period is too much. That question is totally indicative of where our business has been going in the last 5 years – don’t pay the guy who knows how to do it, get the guy(or girl) in marketing to have a go and we will just buy them a camera and a copy of FCPX. When I started, Creative Cow was a growing resource out of which Aaron Rabinowitz and Andrew Kramer have added more tutorials and know-how from external sites. It is know a wonderful place where as you pointed out “people come for advice”. I have, and in many cases it has helped me immensely.
If you are a video professional, you should be fighting your corner as hard and as fierce as you can. When I have been asked questions by kids who are starting in the industry and have valid points to make about how to run a business, how to deal with a client, how to shoot a particular scene, how to tight edit something, how to deliver on a particular medium, what equipment to use etc. I have been more than willing to help. This wasn’t a request like that – it was a request for the community here to tell you exactly how to do your job so you could take the budget away from someone who really knew what they were doing. If you really needed an answer and you wanted to learn you would have typed the question into google, watched every tutorial on here and then come back with a specific query. I felt this was too much.
I hope Andrea didn’t find my response offensive, and I note that you have now started to bad mouth me on other responses. Thanks for that. I notice that you haven’t exactly been offering people sterling advice around here, so it’s a little bit much that you fire at me about this being a sharing community for all, when you don’t seem to have shared that much….
If you really want to learn, watch all the tutorials on here and videocopilot. Then come back and ask a question that a community of video professionals would not be asked by a novice.
If I was out of line, please can other Cow members let me know directly and I will stop responding to posts on here and go back to being a lurker.
Thank you.
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[Tom Sefton] “If I was out of line, please can other Cow members let me know directly and I will stop responding to posts on here and go back to being a lurker.”
Tom,
IMO, you hit the nail on the head, and I applaud you for standing up and telling it like it is.
Because if anyone is out of line, it’s the OP. I doubt the OP meant any harm, but requests like that are basically rude, and demeaning. They show there is a huge disconnect in reality when someone thinks they can just buy a “cheap camera” and get a “beginning student” (Andrea’s words, not mine) to shoot their footage, and thats all it takes to make a marketing video for a “high end” product. Or maybe whats even more surprising is that there are other professionals on the forum jumping up to not only help, but to even defend this behavior.
This would be like asking a mechanic to post the entire process for removing, rebuilding and reinstalling the engine in your car because the kid down the street could do it for free if he just knew how it was done, and had a cheap wrench or two.
If anyone thinks that is a reasonable request, or it’s the purpose of these forums. I would suggest they call up some other trade professionals and try to go down that road with them and see how far they get.Scott Sheriff
Director
https://www.sstdigitalmedia.com“If you think it’s expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur.” —Red Adair
Where were you on 6/21?
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Thanks Scott. I’m not surprised at what other professionals have done here in any way. It just shows what generous and well meaning people they are. I’m not. I want my business and all of the people’s who post on this fine forum to remain secret, sacred and difficult to learn. Because then we will start making money again. I’m not advocating greed is good but our industry is facing some big problems-highlighted most recently by apple’s willingness to stick 2 fingers up at the creative video industry to gain more sales with consumers and the dreaded prosumer with its release of fcpx and dropping of fcp7. Andreas question was well meaning and naive, that’s all; I just don’t like giving up secrets about our trade so that someone can do the job on the cheap and a video pro brother or sister in the USA or wherever in the world misses out. Andrea, for the record I wish you all the best with this job, and any others you get. If this is going to be your chosen career I hope it’s a successful one.
Peace?
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[Sam Cornelis] “Everybody has to start somewhere.”
I agree, everyone does have to start somewhere.
But setting yourself up for failure is not the best way to get started.
Normally you go to school, get an internship, and get some OTJ training as an assistant. Or some combination of the above. The OP just wants to go from the start line, to the finish line, without running the race in-between. Look at what is required here, and how many specialty disciplines are involved.Writing and Scripting
Producing
Audience and Demographics
Equipment Acquisition
Camera Operation
Lighting
Sound Recording
Graphics
Editing
Finish and Distribution.Sure lots of one man band guys do this stuff all the time. But they have Experience.
Seems like a lot to learn in order to accomplish the stated goal of making a marketing piece for a high-end product. Especially since the OP seems to be starting from ground zero as far as experience, is committed to buying cheap equipment, and hiring beginning students as crew.The ‘Good‘, ‘Fast‘, ‘Cheap‘, rule of thumb triangle never lies. You can only have any two, of these three things in your project.
If it is applied to this problem, it points out the obvious.
The OP wants ‘Good‘-Marketing video for a high-end product.
The OP wants ‘Fast‘-Condense years of experience into reading a couple of help posts.
The OP wants ‘Cheap‘-DIY by an inexperienced person, or persons learning OTJ, using cheap gear.Nowhere in the known universe can you have Good, Fast and Cheap all in the same project. Since this is the Marketing and Business forum, I think it is quite proper to point this out.
Scott Sheriff
Director
https://www.sstdigitalmedia.com“If you think it’s expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur.” —Red Adair
Where were you on 6/21?
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[Scott Sheriff] “Because if anyone is out of line, it’s the OP. I doubt the OP meant any harm, but requests like that are basically rude, and demeaning.”
Keep in mind we don’t know the circumstances. For all we know she’d an underling with an oppressive bean counting department head who stuck her with this job. She didn’t ask us to manage the project for her. She asked about classes and tutorials. It’s also possible that this isn’t going to be a mass distributed marketing video. It may be that a small group is coming by for a meeting and the company just wants a basic no budget presentation.
[Scott Sheriff] “whats even more surprising is that there are other professionals on the forum jumping up to not only help, but to even defend this behavior.”
It may not be her behavior at issue. It may be her boss who put her in this situation.
[Scott Sheriff] “This would be like asking a mechanic to post the entire process for removing, rebuilding and reinstalling the engine in your car because the kid down the street could do it for free if he just knew how it was done, and had a cheap wrench or two.”
Or maybe she’s just asking where to find one of those DIY how to fix my engine books because the boss doesn’t want to pay for a mechanic.
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[Tom Sefton] “I’m not surprised at what other professionals have done here in any way. It just shows what generous and well meaning people they are. I’m not. I want my business and all of the people’s who post on this fine forum to remain secret, sacred and difficult to learn. Because then we will start making money again. I’m not advocating greed is good but our industry is facing some big problems-highlighted most recently by apple’s willingness to stick 2 fingers up at the creative video industry to gain more sales with consumers and the dreaded prosumer with its release of fcpx and dropping of fcp7. Andreas question was well meaning and naive, that’s all; I just don’t like giving up secrets about our trade so that someone can do the job on the cheap and a video pro brother or sister in the USA or wherever in the world misses out. Andrea, for the record I wish you all the best with this job, and any others you get. If this is going to be your chosen career I hope it’s a successful one.”
I think this is a good discussion to have in a forum like this.
I completely agree that many here are well meaning.
I also agree we must stop cutting our own throats. To stand in line for twenty years, and let people that just showed up get in the front of the line is self-defeating.
I’m sure the well meaning guys that have all the work they could use, and are getting the best rates, don’t really ever stop to think that handing out the easy answer advice from halfway across the globe to someone that hasn’t paid their dues could be taking food off the table of those that have worked hard to learn their craft, but do not have all the work they could use.
We need to stop doing that 100% across the board.
And it isn’t really helping the newcomers either, at least in the long term. It would be better for many of them to be forced into some type of basic learning of the craft to build their skills on as they progress. If all we are going to do is put out every little fire they have without any effort on their part, they will never be as good as they could have been.Scott Sheriff
Director
https://www.sstdigitalmedia.com“If you think it’s expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur.” —Red Adair
Where were you on 6/21?
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[Craig Seeman] “Keep in mind we don’t know the circumstances. For all we know she’d an underling with an oppressive bean counting department head who stuck her with this job. She didn’t ask us to manage the project for her. She asked about classes and tutorials. It’s also possible that this isn’t going to be a mass distributed marketing video. It may be that a small group is coming by for a meeting and the company just wants a basic no budget presentation.”
I know that the threads stack up here out of order sometimes, and I know that not everyone reads every forum. But I’m not basing my entire opinion on just this one posting in this forum. You may have only seen this one posting.
[Craig Seeman] “It may not be her behavior at issue. It may be her boss who put her in this situation.”
That may be entirely true, but I don’t think it is all that relevant. For example, I don’t think the bean counter excuse would be a defense for software piracy. If the accountants are to cheap to go buy an NLE app, and your boss demands you start editing, does that make it OK to make bootleg copies from a friends set of discs?
I’m not really questioning Andrea’s motives. I’m just saying she’s asking a lot of other people that do this for a living, for whatever reason. And may be setting herself up for failure in the process.
A lot of us had parents that let us drive the car on back roads long before we were old enough for a learners permit. But they wouldn’t let a underage learning driver loose on the 405 in LA. Recipe for disaster.[Craig Seeman] “Or maybe she’s just asking where to find one of those DIY how to fix my engine books because the boss doesn’t want to pay for a mechanic.”
My above two answers combined cover my thoughts on this, and I would add that helping Andrea could be taking work from other fellow COW types, in her area. Because there is a big difference between helping a colleague that already has a gig, but may have hit a minor road block. And making it possible for the gate crashers to land work that they are not really ready for yet, that should really go to someone that is ready.
Did you see the thread above about invoice issues? In that thread Michael Hancock posted a talk by Mike Monteiro gave on getting paid:
https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/17/874262
If you haven’t seen, or watched it, I would highly recommend it. It relates to this because some of the possible ‘outs’ you give Andrea, or her boss are a lot like some of the excuses clients use to try and weasel out of paying.Scott Sheriff
Director
https://www.sstdigitalmedia.com“If you think it’s expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur.” —Red Adair
Where were you on 6/21?
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[Scott Sheriff] “That may be entirely true, but I don’t think it is all that relevant. For example, I don’t think the bean counter excuse would be a defense for software piracy. If the accountants are to cheap to go buy an NLE app, and your boss demands you start editing, does that make it OK to make bootleg copies from a friends set of discs?”
And if it means she doesn’t and she looses her job . . . There are many unscrupulous businesses and it’s not out of character if a business is that cheap. All it takes is one crappy manager, not the whole business. There are businesses who will steal footage for internal marketing or conferences and the poor employee who has to follow orders or get fired is put into an uncomfortable place.
[Scott Sheriff] “I would add that helping Andrea could be taking work from other fellow COW types, in her area.”
It doesn’t sound like her boss is open to that kind of budgeting.
[Scott Sheriff] “If you haven’t seen, or watched it, I would highly recommend it. It relates to this because some of the possible ‘outs’ you give Andrea, or her boss are a lot like some of the excuses clients use to try and weasel out of paying.
“I saw that a while back. I never give a client an out. Its a whole ‘nother ballgame if you’re an employee though. I can tell some stories . . .
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Tom, with respect, and not tying to insult you, but if you think the only way to survive in this business is to stop giving people free advice because they might use it against you to wrest away your clients some day, you’re in the wrong business and you are already doomed.
We can give away the “secret sauce” all day, but it doesn’t make the newbies into Cordon Bleu chefs. Whether you want us to sit in the “cone of silence” or not, thousands of fresh kids are coming out of college and tech school media programs every year, looking for work. There is nothing you can do regarding keeping “secrets” of our experience away from these multitudes that will have the slightest slowing effect on their advance. One of the COW articles recently was about how even among the most experienced of moderators, nobody is an expert at EVERYTHING equally. An entire industry exists to inform and train these people and us, and the COW is one component of that.
My outlook on the issue you raise is that you can’t stop the hordes, you can’t make the industry a private club or priesthood, but, you MAY be able to educate them so that they understand how to value their time and work, and not race to the bottom to deliver cut rates. If you grow a more savvy consumer of media production services, you’re creating more opportunities to steer new business your way, as the customer moves up the food chain looking for more and more value-added.
Four times in my career I’ve been approached by operations that wanted a list of what to buy to make them a successful self-contained production operation, the so-called “secret sauce”. Pretty much every one of those operations is long gone. The one that’s left, that didn’t want to keep using me because they thought it would be cheaper to DIY, still sends me business cleaning up and improving the stuff they do “in house”. One place hired me to come in and shoot. I asked why bring me in when they had their own in-house operation. “We wanted actual quality for this”, they told me. I told the guys asking for the shopping lists you can’t buy gear that magically makes you know what you are doing.
You cannot stop the wave, Tom. You can try to surf it, and navigate in a way that gives you a pleasant ride and takes you safely to the shore of retirement. But to suggest that what we do on the COW to help and advise people is hurting the business is like complaining the ocean is too wet.
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