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Am I old fashion?
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[Marcus Moore] ” there’s a large market still waiting on be captured. Those people are holding on for any number of reasons- money, time investment, personal preference…”
This is a subject worth more discussion:
Why are so many editors holding on to Legacy for so long when there are so many other options available?
Remember that Apple hadn’t really upgraded Legacy itself since FCP6, which was releaed in 2007, over 6 years ago, which seems a lifetime ago technologically. The DSLR revolution hadn’t gotten underway yet, 4K was unimaginable, 3D hadn’t yet come and gone. So why in a technological field like video, where camera’s seem to come and go every 2 years, are so many holding onto such antiquated software?
The answer can’t have anything to do with any singular features of FCP Legacy itself since the same thing can be said of Avid systems, where many users haven’t upgraded in a similar span of time.
Are most editors simply befuddled curmudgeons, as Bill Davis has often implied, terrified of change and holding onto the past? If so what characteristics of editors make them behave so differently from DP’s, who seem to embrace change with every new sensor release? Or is there something intrinsic to the field of editing that accounts for such behavior? Or is it simply that the old tools were actually quite advanced and adequate for many workflows and the inefficiency of change for change sake has been properly accounted for?
Until you can come to some reasonable conclusion about these questions I doubt you’ll have any real idea of what the future market prospects for any NLE might be.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[Herb Sevush] “Are most editors simply befuddled curmudgeons, as Bill Davis has often implied, terrified of change and holding onto the past? If so what characteristics of editors make them behave so differently from DP’s, who seem to embrace change with every new sensor release? Or is there something intrinsic to the field of editing that accounts for such behavior? Or is it simply that the old tools were actually quite advanced and adequate for many workflows and the inefficiency of change for change sake has been properly accounted for?”
Can of worms anyone?
Steve Connor
There’s nothing we can’t argue about on the FCPX COW Forum
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I can say with unequivocal certainty from the video work I see all the time that many people’s needs are just very low. I’ve seen videos in the last year that I wouldn’t have been surprised to see made in the mid-1990s.
There’s thousand upon thousands of small post houses out there that have their steady diet of local or regional businesses who frankly don’t expect much and are happy to see something moving and in colour.
Local TV spots especially seem to be mired in a mid-90’s mindset. The old tropes about local auto dealerships and flooring and carpet warehouses are as true today as they were 20 years ago.
These companies don’t get much per spot, but have lucrative annual bulk contracts.
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[Herb Sevush] “Are most editors simply befuddled curmudgeons, as Bill Davis has often implied, terrified of change and holding onto the past? If so what characteristics of editors make them behave so differently from DP’s, who seem to embrace change with every new sensor release? Or is there something intrinsic to the field of editing that accounts for such behavior? Or is it simply that the old tools were actually quite advanced and adequate for many workflows and the inefficiency of change for change sake has been properly accounted for?”
One of the main factors is the fear many have of not being fast enough. Even as a very fast editor I find myself dealing with doubts every now and again, especially when I haven’t used an NLE for a certain kind of job. The other day I was training myself on Avid 7 to get the same kind of curvy crazy animations I like doing in X. I’ve never had the similar workflows on Avid since what I do on each NLE is different.
In my experience in Germany the job as Editor is generally very stressful. Especially in News, Magazine and MTV style editing. You are expected to multitask (editing, sound recording, fx) and many a times get blamed for mistakes that actually were made by producers or cameramen, and I’ve seen editors and experienced getting fired from jobs for really stupid reason. Even to the point where an editor was fired once many years a go, for not being able to handle a certain codec FCP didn’t have at the time.
These experiences and the financial pressures from clients are one of the main reasons most are still using Legacy, most clients don’t have a clue anyway, but I’m pretty certain once they start realising that working with roles (once mastered) is faster than classical tracks :-)), and why editor X is editing during import and rendering so fast, there will be change, not necessarily towards X but no more 7.
For some reason the FCP 7, 12 core suite I was using today was very slow, probably server, perhaps the fxfactory vignette I was using. It took 5 min for Legacy to duplicate a 60 min cut, Apple Pro Res 422, 8bit sequence. And the render times were fun today, had more time for lunch.The interesting thing is that most X haters in my experience are Legacy Editors. The Avid editors I’ve trained and spoken to who had to use X were much more open to it, they didn’t like everything but they also don’t like everything about Avid. But once the Legacy editors got the hang of it, reactions were alway positive.
“Always look on the bright side of life” – Monty Python
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[Marcus Moore] ” I’ve seen videos in the last year that I wouldn’t have been surprised to see made in the mid-1990s.
“Your references seem to be local tv spots. I don’t doubt you. On the other hand some of the most conservative editors technologically are the a-list Hollywood editors. So I don’t think you can say quality is the dividing line.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
No- absolutely. But I think there’s a large contingent at the bottom end of the Professional market who’s needs are still being met by nearly decade old software.
And you’re right- if someone is in hollywood JUST cutting TV or Film- someone else took care of online, graphics, audio… if you’re just the editor, then comfortable process pretty much trumps everything.
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[Oliver Peters] “If always comes down to this. Doesn’t it? ;-)”
Certainly.
Even if fcpx wasn’t here, I’d still be waiting.
It’s not only a change in NLE I am waiting for, it’s a massive hardware change. So far, we’ve managed to skip the iMac intermediary.
It’ll be new computers, new enclosures, new connectors.
If fcpx wasn’t here and fcs3 was still dead, and the MacPro was dead, I’d be looking at a really big change.
Jeremy
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[Oliver Peters] “Therefore, X.1 is going to be more of the same, hopefully with better performance and some of the gaps filled in. “
And this is exactly what I am waiting for, big motivation to move from a proven system.
I don’t want X to all of a sudden gain tracks, on the contrary, I want X to develop more of the existing methodologies.
And since I will be the guy responsible for helping everyone else here at work come on board, I am waiting until this much heralded next version comes out.
I haven’t been bothered “beta testing” the first 9 releases thus far. 😉
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[Herb Sevush] “On the other hand some of the most conservative editors technologically are the a-list Hollywood editors. So I don’t think you can say quality is the dividing line.”
I agree. and I think Nicholas notes a fairly likely reason why:
[Nikolas Bäurle] “One of the main factors is the fear many have of not being fast enough. Even as a very fast editor I find myself dealing with doubts every now and again, especially when I haven’t used an NLE for a certain kind of job. The other day I was training myself on Avid 7 to get the same kind of curvy crazy animations I like doing in X. I’ve never had the similar workflows on Avid since what I do on each NLE is different.”
Setting aside that X (or anything other than your main axe) may or may not meet all your technical needs… It’s hard for someone who is used to, and expected to, scream through edits, to learn a new workflow, interface, KB command set etc. When you have to think “how do I do this” every few minutes, it’s really frustrating. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it is the mindset. I see it here among our 5 other editors.
4 are on FCP 7 and making no effort to learn *anything* else. They’re enticed by what they’ve seen of X from my bay, but feel like they have no time to mess with it (or Pr or MC). The other, who does most of our AE stuff, is poking around Pr. Not because it’s better or worse, but because it’s familiar. I’m doing temp GFX and some other stuff that he can’t easily do, or has to go to AE for, and the metadata stuff in X is hugely enticing. Despite that, despite that fact that I’m cutting in X and finishing the same jobs, in hollywood, in the next room, He still feels like “nobody likes X”. It’s… interesting.
We were relatively slow here for about a month when I picked up X. I’m not sure I would have had, or even wanted to spend the time to bumble my way through it otherwise. And on my own time, when I have it, the last thing I want to do is stare at, and swear at, a computer screen. 🙂
Clearly, this isn’t the only reason, but I think it’s significant.
[Herb Sevush] “Your references seem to be local tv spots.”
Not that it was your intent, I don’t think it was, but this is a pretty common refrain, evidenced by the “get an IMDB credit” comment above. X hasn’t had it’s Cold Mountain Moment as far as some in “Hollywood” are concerned. The Coen Brothers carry more weight than some Chinese guy… 🙂 And until a “name” editor finishes something on X, a lot of folks won’t take it seriously. And some people won’t ever like it. We do have a lot of choices now though… That’s always been the case with new things I think… 😉
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~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~
~”The function you just attempted is not yet implemented”~ -
[Charlie Austin] “[Herb Sevush] “Your references seem to be local tv spots.”
Not that it was your intent, I don’t think it was, but this is a pretty common refrain, evidenced by the “get an IMDB credit” comment above. X hasn’t had it’s Cold Mountain Moment as far as some in “Hollywood” are concerned. “
I had no intent, I was just making a non judgmental observation about your comments.
I think Hollywood editors are very conservative for a number of reasons –
1) operational speed is not essential, they get paid for thinking and organizational skills, not typing or mousing speed.
2) they have assistants to sweat the technical stuff.
3) stability and reliability are paramount. If Michael Bay is coming for a screening your sh*t better be working.
4) Citizen Kane and Chinatown were cut on upright moviolas; obviously talent trumps technology.
And as I used to say in my days working on industrials – the more story you have the less effects you need. Another adage was – “if the shot sucks, put it in a cube and spin it.”
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf
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