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AJA & Avid in Bed
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[Jeremy Garchow] “I think it’s pretty clear, no?”
Oops… My mistake! Thanks for clarifying…
I’ll delete my earlier message and slink away into my shame.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
https://www.drwfilms.comPOST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
A forum host of Creative COW’s Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums. Formerly host of the Apple Final Cut Basics, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.
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I’m with Shane on this development. If the hardware works with MC, FCP (and PP for that matter) then it’s easy to switch between applications depending on the project’s or client’s needs. And with the relatively low pricing of the NLEs, it’s not too much of a stretch for most shops to own all three.
I’ve been on Avid since ’97 and have only spent a couple days worth of time on FCP, but that wouldn’t keep me from using it if the next release is “awesome” – especially if I could use both on the same $1,000 piece of hardware without dual boots and rewiring I/Os.
FWIW, there’s a lot of grumbling in the Avid camp too. There’s some new functionality in MC5/5.5 that many longtime users hate. The Avid fanboys are also waiting for the magical 64bit release, and based on the release of MC5.5 yesterday, we’ll probably be waiting longer than the FCP camp.
So, as they say, the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence!
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[Jeremy Garchow] “[David Roth Weiss] “Except that it can’t handle uncompressed HD codecs. ”
Certainly not on a laptop, but it can on a desktop (it’s PCIe after all). See screen grab here:
Also, you probably aren’t going to be working in uncompressed HD on this style of capture device.
Just sayin’.”
Sorry but this doesn’t tells me much.
You get the same “Easy setups” with ioHD.
And IMO the ioHD is as “Codec agnostic’ as the IO-Mini.
Being FW800 based, it can not capture HD 10b Unc, BUT can manage it without problem: Upscaling, Downscaling and cross-conversion.
rafael -
[Rafael Amador] “And IMO the ioHD is as “Codec agnostic’ as the IO-Mini.”
I thought that the IOHD ONLY did ProRes. Well, it does do the other formats, but it must decode the ProRes to that format…because internally it is all ProRes.
Shane
GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def -
[Shane Ross] “I thought that the IOHD ONLY did ProRes. Well, it does do the other formats, but it must decode the ProRes to that format…because internally it is all ProRes.”
Lets say that is optimized to work with FCS on Prores (RT, etc).“Io HD features full 10-bit, broadcast-quality,
motion-adaptive SD to HD up-conversion, HD to
HD cross-conversion, HD to SD down-conversion,
and HD/SD 12-bit component analog output.
That’s the equivalent of rolling AJA’s standalone
HD D/A converter, HD to SD down-converter, and
our SD to HD up-converter into one convenient,
cost-efficient box. The quality of the AJA Io HD’s
conversions is identical to AJA’s award-winning
stand-alone products, and since all functionality
is hardware-based, this means that it is available
all the time, on digitize or playback without using
CPU processing like software conversions would.
Io HD will address your varied delivery needs with
support for hardware-based 1080-to-720 or 720-to-
1080 crossconversion”.Nothing to do with Prores.
rafael -
I don’t think we need to split hairs about information that is readily available to everyone on AJA.com or reading the respective manuals.
ioHD can only capture ProRes in HD (and sometimes dvcpro hd), the ioExpress can capture whatever you want provided your processor and storage is fast enough to handle it. It is codec agnostic, while the ioHD is not.
The ioHD can sort of playback uncompressed HD, but it’s a big load on the machine as the transcode to ProRes is done on the fly in software.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “The ioHD can sort of playback uncompressed HD, but it’s a big load on the machine as the transcode to ProRes is done on the fly in software.”
Jeremy,
The ioHD do not convert to Prores by default.
No Prores involved on the processes mentioned before.
The only limit is the FW800 connexion that, obviously, do not allow a full HD Uncompressed stream.
This limits HD Unc on capture and preview (Color).
rafael -
Sorry Raf, but ProRes is absolutely involved. The IOHD has a built in ProRes encoder…that’s why it is able to do what it does. Why you can capture 1080i ProRes using this with a laptop…older laptops too. Because the encoding is handled by the unit, NOT the computer processors. This is why the Matrox MXO2 cannot encode 1080i ProRes on a laptop, nor can the IO Express…well, until these latest laptops came out. Because the computers did the conversion.
But with the IOHD, the encoder is built in, so it does it. But this also means that to work with any other format like DVCPRO HD, it needs to hit the ProRes encoder, then decode that to DVCPRO HD before it sends it out. Or the computer does the decoding… I forget.
Jeremy and I have pretty heavy involvement with AJA…we both manned the booth at various NAB shows and have to know the units well…
Shane
GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def -
[Rafael Amador] “The ioHD do not convert to Prores by default.
No Prores involved on the processes mentioned before.”Raf. Buddy. I know that its harder and harder to believe me on these forums anymore. I understand, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Perhaps i should shut up for a while, I agree with that.
But your statement above is just wrong. When dealing with HD footage, the ioHD converts everything to ProRes in hardware and sends it to fcp, and upon playback, everything is converted to ProRes before being sent down the fw800 pipe back to the ioHD. Uncompressed SD is supported, just like the original io. Its just the way it works. It doesn’t work with color because color isn’t powerful enough to crunch uncompressed down to prores before sending to the ioHD for output, and color supports a multitude of codecs, while the ioHD does not.
At any rate, the ioExpress supports three separate NLEs across two operating systems, and it wont break the bank. Its quite a versatile little machine.
Good luck everyone. Hope you’ve sharpened your machetes.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “Raf. Buddy. I know that its harder and harder to believe me on these forums anymore. I understand, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Perhaps i should shut up for a while, I agree with tha”
Com on, Jeremy.
Please don’t say thinks like that.
You know that i trust you very much and I respect your advise because your knowledge is based on the daily practice; but you also know that I’m formed on the old times of the standards, were technical specs of any system were very on the papers.
My lack of understanding is not your fault. I expect AJA clearly stating that “all the internal process is done on Prores”. and every input is automatically converted to Prores. Just like that.
Being “Prores Native” tells me nothing.[Jeremy Garchow] ” When dealing with HD footage, the ioHD converts everything to ProRes in hardware and sends it to fcp, and upon playback, everything is converted to ProRes before being sent down the fw800 pipe back to the ioHD.”
Again.
You are talking when managing the ioHD from FC.The ioHD works on “Stand alone’ too; Switched-off from FC.
You can use it to convert the 10b Unc HD out of the SDI of a camera to 10b Unc SD.
Do you mean that even in that case there is a Prores intermediate step?
If this is so, the is really crap. That is not an Uncompressed process, and is contradictory with what AJA claims.Going SDI IN-HD/10b Unc > Prores HD> Downscaling > Prores SD> 10b Unc-SDI OUT, simply makes no sense on a RT process. The only issue with HD/10b Unc is data-rate, no processing power. Any compressed format needs more processing-power than an Uncpmpressed one.
Sorry but I have to stick this again. It seems that nobody has ready or at least understood it.
Up to this the ioHD works internally as a KONA:“Io HD features full 10-bit, broadcast-quality,
motion-adaptive SD to HD up-conversion, HD to
HD cross-conversion, HD to SD down-conversion,
and HD/SD 12-bit component analog output.
That’s the equivalent of rolling AJA’s standalone
HD D/A converter, HD to SD down-converter, and
our SD to HD up-converter into one convenient,
cost-efficient box. The quality of the AJA Io HD’s
conversions is identical to AJA’s award-winning
stand-alone products..”.I trust you Jeremy, and, as Shane points, I know that you are very well connected to the AJA people, so if you just tell me that you know from the AJA people the fact that is “All Prores Inside”, I just shut my mouth.
Cheers,
rafael
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