Air Duct sound in b.g.

[Craig Alan]

Thanks John. Do you think the noise in my clip can be handled in the lite version? I have a bit of funding left for this year and could cut an item to make room for the lite version. I would need it to round trip with FCP X though. I guess I could export a master of each clip from Final cut. Open it in RX 4 then reimport into FC??? How much of a learning curve? I have not worked with pro tools or any pro audio software.

Can you upgrade if you use the lite version and want to step up? Or do you pay the whole amount for the pro version?

Mean time I’ll do what I can to get someone to turn off the system. It’s also possible that the ducts are picking up noise from an adjacent room in that building. There is a garage next door. They may have something running in there. We are designing a new studio which will be built in the next two years and we’re bringing in an audio specialist to help with the design.

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[John Fishback]

I think it would work very well with your clip. You can get a trial version of RX4. The dialog de-noiser is easy to understand. Other modules are more complex. There are some good tutorials available. You will have to export the audio from your project, import to the standalone app, de-noise, then import the file back to FCPX. There are upgrade paths, but I don’t know if you save by upgrading from RX 4.

John

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[Richard Crowley]

How many people are you trying to mic with a single hypercardioid?
It sounds to me like your basic microphone scheme is completely inappropriate for what you are trying to do.
A hypercardioid mic is appropriate for ONE person when you keep it aimed directly at their mouth.
A hypercardioid mic is NOT appropriate for picking up multiple subjects, ESPECIALLY if you are attempting to use it in a FIXED deployment.

Your expectations of covering multiple people in a noisy room with a distant, fixed hypercardioid is almost a text-book case of worst-case conditions.

The main problem here isn’t the air duct noises, it is the microphone deployment.

[Craig Alan]

The hypercardioid is aimed at only one person in a fixed location aimed at her mouth as close as possible, just out of frame. The male voice is miked with a countryman headset and he is off camera. What you hear is before any editing. Not sure what you are hearing that sounds that awful. But I’m not a pro audio tech and this is a no budget film in a school production studio with a noise problem that I’d like to address. The voices sound fine to me. But I’m all ears if you want to give specific advice on what to listen for or mike placement etc.

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[Craig Alan]

Thanks John. I’ll contact the company and see if how they are coming with the Round trip to FCP X fix.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Richard Crowley]

It sounds distant and reverberant to me. The microphone is too far away from the subject for a room with those acoustics. And by acoustics, I mean BOTH the ambient noise AND the reflective surfaces (walls, ceiling, floor, table, whatever).

This sounds like a casual interview. Since you didn’t include the picture here, we have only the audio track as evidence, so you are privy to a great many more details here than you have disclosed to us.

What is the justification for using a microphone so far away on a boom out of the camera frame? I would challenge the producer on that one. What is more important here? NOT seeing the microphone (WHY?) or getting good sound?

Can you use a distant mic technique like you are using? Sure, in the proper acoustic environment (but that room isn’t it.)
Can you get decent sound in that room? Sure, with the proper mic technique (which is NOT a distant hyper, IMHO).

If you listen to JUST the sound from the off-camera interviewer’s headset mic, how is the signal (speech) to noise (HVAC sounds) ratio?

[Craig Alan]

Got it. Thanks. It was an interview of sorts – an analytic session. The mike was fairly close, about 2 feet. I am shooting with 3 cameras the widest being a mid shot which determined the distance that the mike needs to be. I really want to kill that sound. The room does not have good acoustics or any treatment and you have a well tuned ear. But that fan or hum or whatever it is is the thing that is really annoying. With lots of back ground noise ,like during classes with three teams shooting you really don’t notice it much. But after school more serious shoots you can’t escape it.

[Richard Crowley] “If you listen to JUST the sound from the off-camera interviewer’s headset mic, how is the signal (speech) to noise (HVAC sounds) ratio?
“

still bad and I’ve tried aiming the hyper at different places in the room to try to find the source or better acoustics and it makes little difference. That’s why I though a filter might do the trick.

For dramatic reasons we can’t have the mike in the shot. But even with the countryman headset right near the mouth I can hear the b.g. noise. I will try to get our HVAC expert over – I’m wondering if the thermostats are broken. Maybe the fan does not turn off. Maybe an adjacent room could be turned off. The sound reminds me of when a fan in a computer is whooshing through cheap plastic parts and its driving you crazy when you are editing.

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[Craig Alan]

when we were striking today at 8:30 pm we realized the room got quiet. so something is running that can be shut off.

huge difference.

I’ll try to get help on that.

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[Richard Crowley]

Two feet away is NOT “fairly close” under ANY conditions. And especially in a small, reverberant room. Two feet is rather at the most extreme end of the working distance you could expect. I think you may have unrealistic expectations of what these microphones can do.

I fear you completely missed my question about the headset mic. My understanding is that the headset mic was on the interviewer who was off-camera. When you listen to JUST THE HEADSET MIC (without the hypercardioid mic on the subject), what is the signal-to-noise ratio and quality of the audio? Since the microphone is a few cm from the interviewer’s mouth, I would expect the track to be almost completely absent of the room/ambient problems.

Of course, we are assuming that you are recording the interviewer’s mic and the subject’s mic on separate tracks so you can isolate them and listen to them separately. If you are mixing the mics together during shooting, that is another practice you could avoid to help you deal with recording audio in a hostile environment.

[Craig Alan]

Richard I got as close as I could and still be out of frame. The two mikes were on two different channels and
Listening to just the channel with the headset mike you can still hear the hvac noise . The room is not that small. 51 x 39 feet with a light grid at 15 feet high and ceiling at about 20 feet. But virtually no sound treatment. I’ve recorded in this room without the noise and at that distance I’ve been pleased with the audio. I’m sure you could detect less than ideal acoustics. I’ve never read anywhere that 2 feet from a talent’s mouth is too far to place a boom mike. I had the talent on two close ups and a mid shot. The overhead cam was the only one that I could see the mike dipping in a bit on a monitor. I lifted it just out of frame. Even with a quiet voice the mike picked up her voice at decent levels. I can’t use a headset on this talent. Now if the headset mike didn’t pick up the noise I might start thinking about hiding a lav on the talent. But my need right now is to get the hvac fan to turn off when we are shooting. That won’t fix the room acoustics but no one will spend money on doing this since we are designing a new studio and have an audio expert to consult on sound treatment. This studio is EOL. If you thought maybe hanging blankets around the talent or some other make shift treatment would help I’d consider it.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.